R&R Fund - Page 6

Vedder · 10-02-2007, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg

...
The (perceived) market rate for that Fireforge has increased by around 800 PED over the last year due to market manipulation.
...

Ehm... You don't know that.
These old guns hardly drops anymore, and as EU grows so will the price, unless MA starts letting us loot them or similar or better guns.

Whether this explains all increase is hard to say, but personally I think 'market manipulation' usually only have a short time effect, and has a lot less effect on the general pricing that the reseller haters claim.
But again... it's really hard to tell for sure.

Oh btw... Before you get the wrong idea: Nope, I'm not a reseller/trade/market manipulator or whatever you just thought.

Oleg · 10-02-2007, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vedder

Ehm... You don't know that.
These old guns hardly drops anymore, and as EU grows so will the price, unless MA starts letting us loot them or similar or better guns.

Whether this explains all increase is hard to say, but personally I think 'market manipulation' usually only have a short time effect, and has a lot less effect on the general pricing that the reseller haters claim.
But again... it's really hard to tell for sure.

Oh btw... Before you get the wrong idea: Nope, I'm not a reseller/trade/market manipulator or whatever you just thought.

With those type of item the manipulation just pushes the price up and up. We're talking about a gun with 20something damage/sec and average eco at over 1000 PEDs. This very clearly does not reflect the true worth of the gun.

Richard Devil · 10-02-2007, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg

You must be the only one reading this thread who doesn't understand what I am asking. Or rather you claim not to, I don't for a moment believe you.

Your reluctance to answer a simple question betrays a remarkable lack of integrity.

The (perceived) market rate for that Fireforge has increased by around 800 PED over the last year due to market manipulation. Given what you have said, and refused to say, I can only assume that you are partly responsible for this.

Such activity is ruining this game for genuine players who are unable to improve their equipment without paying a massively over-inflated price, and anyone who invests in you will only be increasing the problem (and at great risk, given your evasiveness).

Your greed is despicable, and pathetic.

I evade your question because u got a point to prove, u want to label me as a market manipulator, even though its not true. With the ff8000 i sold it to a person in a trade, thus in no way affecting the markup on eu auction data. The price he gave me for it, was his decision. I can ask him once he comes online to confirm this.

My greed? Im here offering services which any other resseller would think is retarded. Im offering a chance for the community to take part of the profit of a resseller, and u calling me greedy?

I aggre my sale could have increased/decreased the price, but everyone does that every time they complete a trade.

Richard Devil · 10-02-2007, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg

With those type of item the manipulation just pushes the price up and up. We're talking about a gun with 20something damage/sec and average eco at over 1000 PEDs. This very clearly does not reflect the true worth of the gun.

how can i with one gun out what 1000 out there affect the price so much? that means that on average the gun rose 800ped in price, hence all the guns gained 800kped in value. So u saying that i with one sale have produced the incentive for other players to spend even at least 100kped more on these guns? Which is only 100 ped increase.

My point: I cant possibly with one gun affect the rise of value in over 10kped even, which is 10ped per gun.
To affect it 800k ped, u need at least 300guns.

Richard Devil · 10-02-2007, 20:18

Ok im gone for a bit, will be back in an hour and continue answering questions and such.

Oleg · 10-02-2007, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Devil

how can i with one gun out what 1000 out there affect the price so much? that means that on average the gun rose 800ped in price, hence all the guns gained 800kped in value. So u saying that i with one sale have produced the incentive for other players to spend even at least 100kped more on these guns? Which is only 100 ped increase.

My point: I cant possibly with one gun affect the rise of value in over 10kped even, which is 10ped per gun.
To affect it 800k ped, u need at least 300guns.

1. Price and value are not the same thing.

2. You appear to have fundamentally failed to grasp how the auction data works, which is something of a serious flaw for a trader. Or, more likely, you're just trying to deny involvement by spewing spurious and meaningless numbers.

Oleg · 10-02-2007, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Devil

I evade your question because u got a point to prove, u want to label me as a market manipulator, even though its not true.

I don't want to label you as anything, I'm just asking questions. Your answers, or lack of answers, suggest to me that you are not what I would call a legitimate trader.

Outman · 10-02-2007, 22:27

Oleg one sale can not in any way make the price of the gun go up 1k peds. I do think 10 peds it could do maybe even 100 but not 1k.

Oleg · 10-02-2007, 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outman

Oleg one sale can not in any way make the price of the gun go up 1k peds. I do think 10 peds it could do maybe even 100 but not 1k.

I am not suggesting that it could*, or has. These things are cumulative. If you look at the data you will see that the price has risen steadily with each sale, for the most part, which is the familiar pattern associated with price inflation of individual items in EU, whatever the cause.

http://www.peauction.com/itemlisting.php?id=616

I did not suggest that Richard's one sale even affected the stats one bit - he said that he sold to a friend, which I assume was a private sale and therefore not even reflected in either in-game or PEAuction figures. It is he, not I, that has come up with a bunch of spurious figures in order to defend himself against something that I have not accused him of.

You can draw your own conclusions from that.

I'm just asking questions about the nature of the investment and the integrity of the guy running it. Investing in anything without doing so would be foolish.

He has yet to give us a proper answer. Again, you can draw your own conclusions. If you want to invest in someone who refuses to give a straight answer to a straight question, be my guest.

(* though actually it could affect the in-game auction data in this way, on the weekly or monthly price)

Richard Devil · 10-03-2007, 00:04

Ok quickly. Let me just explain why i avoid the questions, and you claiming not trying to label me as a resseller.

The first question you ever posted in this thread:

Quote:

How is continuous reselling and manipulation of the market good for the EU community?

You must agree without doubt this labels me a resseller and market manipulator.

Second question:

Quote:

How is artificially raising the market price of rare or semi-rare items good for the EU community?

Similar to first.

Third Question:

Quote:

This is what you're doing, right? If not, perhaps you could give us some examples of the trades you are making in order to increase the value of the portfolio. What items are you trading in?

This starts as a biased question, because if "this is not what im doing" you force me to defend myself by providing information, other people could be interested in.

Fourth Question

Quote:

So are you saying that you only trade in 'resources' rather than 'equipment'? i.e. Do you only trade in stackable-type items such as ores or tailoring materials, or do you also buy weapons and armour, for example?

If it's the former, you are a trader. If it's the latter, you are a re-seller. Which are you?

After not accepting my answer u further make questions that really have no answer.
I can trade stackables and be more of a manipulator then i could trade in armours and such. What i trade in, in no way proves one side or the other. I try to explain that to you in the next post. You said i evade the question.

Fifth Question

Quote:

Do you buy mid- to high-end armours and weapons and relist them at a higher price? Yes, or no?

If i answered yes, i would get labeled as a market manipulator and bad version of the resseller right away. If i answered no i would be lieing. But that does not mean im a resseller or market manipulator who is just pushing for extreme profit because of rarity of mid-to high end equipment.
This question is again biased if i answer yes, because of the way u structured it.

Summary:
So tell me honestly, what are you trying to do with these questions?

You called me a resseller and manipulator, and if im not then i have to proove it right away by giving away what i trade in which has no relevance. Its the way you trade determines who you are.
You called me greedy.
You called me pathetic.

Pls do tell me how im greedy and pathetic.