Higher Skills ~ Higher Stakes?

[blubalou]

It seems like higher skills simply translate to being able to use better weapons & armor, finders, or to craft higher level items efficiently, which translates to being able to spend more per click while still getting the same rate of return you did when you were a noob.

To put it another way, when we are born to Calypso and fire the Opallo for the first time or craft our first Basic Filter, our TT return rate is 55% (not a real number; made up for this example.) Then as our skills (and QR in the case of crafting) get better, the TT rate of return improves because we have to click fewer times to kill a MOB, or we search deeper on average, or weget a few more Successes in the crafting machine. But at some point the return caps out (lets say at 80% (another made up number for this example) no matter what level skills we have.

So then we upgrade our weapons / armor, finders, and the stuff we craft and start over again climbing the efficiency scale.

Well then if this logic is correct, at a certain point we will get to a place where we should go no further, correct?

Because unless you are the rare genius that has figured out how to recover the lost 20% (or whatever it averages out to) that MA takes for their services by using economic forces and making money off the rest of us, that 20% will eventually become more than you can justify spending to play an online game.

To give one more analogy, Blackjack odds are the same on a $100 table as they are on a $2 table. But based on my budget, I don't ever sit at a table that is more than $5 / hand and probably never will. Similarly, I don't think I'll ever be more than a low level player in EU and truthfully don't have a problem with that. I will likely continue to skill until I'm pushing my budgetary limits, then will chip down some and settle into including future skill gains as part of my loot.

So am I missing something or is it true that in order to stick around for the long haul we all must find our top level, whatever that is, and be content to stay there?

(Which of course is totally unlike all the other MMORPGs and possibly why many get hurt financially, b*tch about it here, then quit altogether. I'm finding EU to be the MMORPG I always dreamed someone would make, but I almost had to bail early on when I found I was continually playing for stakes outside my league.)

[Alexis Starfire]

Take it from a long time player (5 year) EU started out as a great game called Project Entropia (PE). I was great, new and inovative..and if the publishers hadn't gotten greedy it would be bigger than World of Warcraft today.

Now, EU (Entropia Universe) is like your analogy. Its a casino, a slot machine, a roulette wheel. Push a button, pull the trigger, drop a bomb and let the wheel spin! Its mostly 'pay for play' now, unlike PE was. And like any other casino the house doesn't like to lose or pay out often. The house wants your money.

When an MA person came on the new video screens years ago and stated
"Take the 'L' out of PLAY and the 'R' out of FREE"
We knew that the great PE was all over..

It is still debated as to wither 'skills' have any effect on the outcome of the 'spin'. I think they have a bearing (mining wise) on wither you find an ore or enmatter deposit (I find a hellva lot more with my 105 than I did with my tt 101)

But wither those skills have any bearing on if its a "No resources found" . a "poor" , a global or a HOF/ATH a lot of people debate.

All i can say is (like blackjack) ..."Ya pays your money, Ya takes yer chance"
As for the 20% you mention? People have been gambling since time began..and will continue to spend heaps on 'games of chance'. People will spend a lot more than 20% for the chance at the 'big win'

EU is a "game of chance' in a pretty adventure game wrapper..once you realize that you will be better off

Cheers

[Sarubaboon]

not sure i completely agree.....

i was happily hunting snables for a long time and consistently broke even or better.... so, you can stay at the real low end and profit.... of course its a real small profit, but there you go..... never went into higher level hunting.....

i do mostly crafting these days, my returns are normally higher than 90%, typically 95% or better, if i include the cost of skills i more than break even....

so..... if you play the game intelligently, you can profit... luck has very little to do with it (determines how much you profit by, not whether you profit or not).

[itree]

While I more or less agree with you regarding TT returns, you are completely ignoring markup. Lots and lots of people can hunt small critters, but only a select few can hunt the big ones with max efficiency. So the markup on the stuff only the big baddies drop tends can be better and offset more of the loss.

[Alexis Starfire]

Originally Posted by Sarubaboon

i was happily hunting snables for a long time and consistently broke even or better.... so, you can stay at the real low end and profit.... of course its a real small profit, but there you go..... never went into higher level hunting.....

Well, I have, I had the 'big guns' that give you 4 and 10 shots a ped (10-25 burn) and the Jag Armour and done the 'high end' entities, troxs, hogs etc.. and its a black sinkhole. Lots of fun if you can afford to sink money into it.

The 'big baddies' dont drop much more that the worthless crap the 'little baddies' do so why bother.
I sold all of it and now do the same as you now (low end noob critters) and most the time I 'break even'

Crafting on the other hand is a huge money sink for me. But I'm pretty unskilled at that so you would expect to lose your arse. Minings okay usually do more than break even there, but then blow it all crafting with the proceeds

But this topic is about skills and I hardly think you were doing 95% when you were a noob with the first button push. You prolly (like the rest of us) spend tons of PED getting there.

One good think about crafting though, I don't know of any 'decay' associated with it

Hunting is okay as a sideline IMHO, but the totally crappy returns , other than the no-so-often global or HOF make it the least profitable profession.

Cheers

[Doer]

I think that the way you describe the progression is essentially correct in describing one's interaction with MindArk. It's the interaction with the market (other players) that make it more interesting. More players would probably stay if EU was presented in those terms from the start ("Play at your level") so they didn't overextend and end up broke. Beyond that, they need to understand the importance of markup as itree said. There can be better markup drops at higher levels, but it's not just bigger mobs (and not all bigger mobs) that drop more markup, it's mobs that not everyone wants to hunt. Everything in EU is a tradeoff between ease and expense.

Certainly playing carefully can mitigate most of the loss, as itree shows with his thread on frugality (although he has definitely been very lucky). I have an overall ~99% return on my last 125k PEDs ammo through selling everything I loot if it has any markup at all, and I wouldn't say I've been particularly lucky. If i just look at tt return, the number is less than 90% (over 12k loss).

[Jorael]

Originally Posted by Alexis Starfire

Take it from a long time player (5 year) EU started out as a great game called Project Entropia (PE). I was great, new and inovative..and if the publishers hadn't gotten greedy it would be bigger than World of Warcraft today.

Don't underestimate the power or nerdness... WoW is for elf-loving rednecks. And seems there are quite alot of them in the world.

[blubalou]

Originally Posted by Doer

I think that the way you describe the progression is essentially correct in describing one's interaction with MindArk. It's the interaction with the market (other players) that make it more interesting. More players would probably stay if EU was presented in those terms from the start ("Play at your level") so they didn't overextend and end up broke. Beyond that, they need to understand the importance of markup as itree said. There can be better markup drops at higher levels, but it's not just bigger mobs (and not all bigger mobs) that drop more markup, it's mobs that not everyone wants to hunt. Everything in EU is a tradeoff between ease and expense.

Certainly playing carefully can mitigate most of the loss, as itree shows with his thread on frugality (although he has definitely been very lucky). I have an overall ~99% return on my last 125k PEDs ammo through selling everything I loot if it has any markup at all, and I wouldn't say I've been particularly lucky. If i just look at tt return, the number is less than 90% (over 12k loss).

Thanks to all the responses, but this one did a good job at summing up what I was getting at with my post and the responses of the others....

While I used 20% as my example of MA's take, I suspected that if you play smart, the TT return is probably closer to 90 - 95%. And while I haven't played long enough to be sure (which is why I'm asking for input here) both Doer and Sarubaboon have reported that to be their experience at very different levels of play.

Then yes, if you play smart and get that kind of base return, you really do stand a chance of making a profit or at least playing for a really long time without any more deposits once you reach the level where you are content to stay. That chance for profit comes of course from interaction with other players... trading your loot for markup; choosing to hunt, mine, and craft things that have a markup, and even possibly selling the skills that continue to accumulate after you have reached your self imposed cap (which is why this post wound up in the Skills category.)

I also like Doer's comment that if MA is failing in any way, it might be in the way they market what they have created here. I might agree because I too almost had to quit for financial reasons long before I figured out how to have fun without breaking my bank.

But that's about the only negative I 'might' agree with; other than that I think EU is awesome! So what if the base gameplay is really casino-like? There's thousands of successful online casinos because it's exciting to have a chance to win. However unlike blackjack, video poker, or the most mind-numbing of all... online slots, I find hunting, mining, and crafting in an outer space MMORPG setting to be way more original.

Then to make things more interesting, you have to work your way up to a point where you get the best odds (probably pays off best for MA, but it does make things more interesting for us.) And because the EU slots pay out anything but coins, the opportunity is there to change it from a game of chance to a game of skill; and by skill I mean your ability to out-market the other people online.

So while I understand Starfires comments and do regret a little that I seem to have missed the good old days (joined just 5 months ago) I really think MA is on the right track and is adopting the business model that is needed to give something like WoW a run for its money. While the first 5 years may have been incredible for many who are now getting the short end of the stick, that model was not doing it.... (less than 700k subscribers of which only about 10% are likely active.)

The new model puts MA in a better position to market which is really the way to get a bigger player base. And I'm afraid a more generic premise serves better to appeal to the masses than does a fascinating and intriguing story line (where 'fascinating' and 'intriguing' are subjective to the audience's opinion.) It's regretable that things must often be 'dumbed-down' to appeal to everyone, but that is the case which Joreal so elogquently points out!