Impact on health of chipping skills - Page 4

Doer · 04-29-2008, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

I don't think we know the base HP for sure at all do we? (ie. the one in the HP thread is also just a guess).

Does your stuff there prove those base HP numbers you've posted Doer?

The optimal base health was 87.95 for new avatars, 88.39 for old avatars and 88.50 for all my snapshots since the change to decimal health (biased for the range around 140-150, perhaps), and 88.7 for my snapshots and your current skills -- all assuming the health contributions are as currently expected (including 40 stamina=1 hp, is that what we've been using?). I did steps of 0.01 health. It's a smallish sample size for new avatars.

It would be good to have a brand new avatar report health and subtract off 1/8 hp (for the 5 attributes @ 1) to get base hp now. I think i saw somewhere that had been posted. If there are any completely unused avatars from before the change we could do the same, but i heard that some of them had their stamina changed.

I'm sure my results are being skewed by truncation of old health values on wiki.

Edit:
Jimmy B, i've tried using your skill data combined with my snapshots from the last few months and found that there's a large discrepancy. You have more attributes than me

and it's underpredicting your health while slightly overpredicting mine, so i tried increasing the contribution of attributes to 35 or 30. Neither of those resolved the problem, so it's either a modifying effect (e.g. by strength) or something in the skills.

Just for fun i pulled in Neo's data (http://www.entropedia.info/Info.aspx...=Avatar&id=496). He has roughly the same attributes as we do (more than me, less than you), but 322 health

. Well, it underpredicts your health the most, then mine, and overpredicts neo's, so that trend follows skills, not attributes.

I subtracted all my known health-giving skills from yours and neo's to see which ones could potentially be pulling you up and him down.

Code:

Agility   	-3	1
Courage 	-716	11363
Rifle   	-576	4336
Handgun 	618	5633
Combat Sense	-894	8028
Dexterity	-263	6161
Athletics	-951	7216
Weap. Handling	-117	5521
Psyche  	12	11
Surveying	380	5144
Prospecting	495	7060
Intelligence	-1	2
Combat Reflexes	-548	5807
Strength	20	4
Melee Combat	1285	7581
Stamina 	0	0
Perception	-323	6552
Serendipity	-215	6834
Coolness	-49	4580
Mining  	609	8576
Drilling	502	5711

It's possible that one of the skills that is - in the first column and + in the second could give less than the currently assigned health, but it would have to be a relatively small departure.

E.g. one of these:

Code:

Agility   	-3	1
Courage 	-716	11363
Rifle   	-576	4336
Combat Sense	-894	8028
Dexterity	-263	6161
Athletics	-951	7216
Weap. Handling	-117	5521
Intelligence	-1	2
Combat Reflexes	-548	5807
Perception	-323	6552
Serendipity	-215	6834
Coolness	-49	4580

I think we've still got some unknown factor to discover.

wizzszz · 04-30-2008, 18:01

Managed to get a skill screenie of a complete newb.

The skills are sorted by value, in descending order, unfortunately some of the health contributing skills are > 1.

Haven't checked the effect of the few skills yet, but cant be much, doubt it reduces the base health below 88.
(Well, maybe not if we sum up the effect of all the 1's)

Jimmy B · 04-30-2008, 18:42

Nice one wizz. I reckon he has 88.23 health or there abouts. The contribution from skills can't be more than about 0.01 imo. He has about 1.35 agility so 4.35 total attributes (5.35 if we include Stamina). That's about 0.11 or 0.13 if we include stamina with our current estimate of 1 HP per 40 attributes.

I can't see any way I can get base HP down to a round 88 from that which would be nicer. Unless we do something like Doer's HP = 88+(skills~0.01)+(attributes~0.11)+2*HP/1600 = 88.23.

----

Doer, could be a combination of things of course. I'd be quite interested to see HP, attributes & calculated contribution from skills excluding attributes for the three avatars.

Did you recalculate mine btw or just copy what I wrote - I used the Optimiser to do the calculation which will cause small errors due to the rounding of the attributes that it does.

madseend · 05-01-2008, 01:38

nice I'll keep een eye on this thread

Doer · 05-01-2008, 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

Doer, could be a combination of things of course. I'd be quite interested to see HP, attributes & calculated contribution from skills excluding attributes for the three avatars.

Did you recalculate mine btw or just copy what I wrote - I used the Optimiser to do the calculation which will cause small errors due to the rounding of the attributes that it does.

Skill, You, Me, Neo

Code:

Strength 	1.408	0.912	1.021
Stamina 	0.225	0.225	0.225
Agility 	1.798	1.871	1.906
Intelligence 	1.256	1.270	1.331
Psyche  	0.891	0.594	0.870

Melee Combat 	4.591	2.183	16.396
Perception 	1.956	2.158	6.253
Courage 	12.536	14.791	50.585
Drilling 	0.822	0.508	4.078
Rifle   	3.948	4.308	7.019
Prospecting 	0.669	0.359	4.772
Handgun 	3.578	3.192	6.712
Combat Sense 	2.726	3.843	13.878
Mining  	0.932	0.551	5.911
Athletics 	5.630	7.412	20.943
Commando 	0.000	0.000	34.942
Dexterity 	4.529	4.858	12.559
Weapons H. 	3.134	3.207	6.658
Coolness 	9.034	9.156	20.605
Surveying 	0.654	0.417	3.632
Serendipity 	2.717	2.851	7.122
Combat Ref. 	2.576	2.918	6.547

Health  	154.45 	156.06 	322.09
Predicted   	154.31 	156.29 	322.67
Difference  	  0.14   -0.23	 -0.58

Those are the contributions to health.

I'm not sure what you are asking regarding which of your numbers i used. I just pulled your data from wiki, as i did with Neo's. I don't know that his skills there are correct, but his health comes out close enough to expected values that i'm assuming so.

Jimmy B · 05-01-2008, 15:43

Hmm, yes its tricky to get anything that makes much sense just by adjusting attributes with those numbers. Best I can do is 0.07 Strength, 0.03 Agility, 0 Int & Psyche. But that still leaves you slightly off compared to me and Neo which I can only fix by making things negative

So could be skills too.

I'll have a muse and also try to dig out an old skill set - I've done some weird skilling in stuff like Nerve Blast/Clubs/Powerfist recently so a before/after may show up something interesting.

wizzszz · 05-01-2008, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doer

I'm not sure what you are asking regarding which of your numbers i used. I just pulled your data from wiki, as i did with Neo's. I don't know that his skills there are correct, but his health comes out close enough to expected values that i'm assuming so.

Add mine, using the currently assumed numbers & base health, i have 1.65 more health than calculated (base health 88.39 & stamina included, without it would be even a bigger error)!
(I will validate the scanned numbers ingame again, but i'm pretty sure they are correct, or my excel sheet is wrong somehow)

http://www.entropedia.info/Info.aspx...Avatar&id=1103

Jimmy B · 05-01-2008, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by wizzszz

Add mine, using the currently assumed numbers & base health, i have 1.65 more health than calculated (base health 88.39 & stamina included, without it would be even a bigger error)!
(I will validate the scanned numbers ingame again, but i'm pretty sure they are correct, or my excel sheet is wrong somehow)

http://www.entropedia.info/Info.aspx...Avatar&id=1103

Interesting wizz, taking a look now.

Jimmy B · 05-01-2008, 18:27

Actually wizz by my calculation yours is out by exactly the same amount as mine. So I think you must have used a different base health to Doer.

Using base health as 88 and including stamina, I get that the formula underpredicts health by:

0.84 (me, wizz)
0.47 (Doer)
0.12 (Neo)
0.08 (Noob)
1.13 (Witte)

wizzszz · 05-01-2008, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

Actually wizz by my calculation yours is out by exactly the same amount as mine. So I think you must have used a different base health to Doer.

Using base health as 88 and including stamina, I get that the formula underpredicts health by:

0.84 (me, wizz)
0.47 (Doer)
0.12 (Neo)
0.08 (Noob)

What numbers did you use? I took the numbers listed on entropedia.
My calculations show me 1.65 off, neo is just 0.09 off for me.
(Using a base health of 88 its even worse, i'm 2.04 off, neo is 0.3 off)

/Edit:
Forgot strength

Didn't find my old sheet, so i had to make a new one...

Still don't get the same numbers you do...
0.84 for me, 0.94 for you, and 0.73 overpredicted for neo