Defense Skills; OR, everything you ever wanted to know about Evade but were too lazy to search for

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Commodore

What do u mean by hit frequencey?
Unless mobs also miss their target regulary without causing u to gain evade, the mobs I'm hitting (mostly melee) are certainly not hitting on a regular time interval such as ~3s.

You don't always get defense-related gains when a mob misses, just like you don't always get offense-related gains every time you shoot. As my tests show, a small tantillion misses more than half of the time with decent skills and caperons miss about 20% of the time.

All mobs attack at the same rate each time you meet them, though. Whether that rate varies between types of mobs (besides aurli and kreltin) i don't know: so far it seems to be one attack every 3.25 s for all other mobs. This is, of course, easier to notice on mobs that don't miss much and mobs that have an easily identified animation associated with their attack (the caperon swings its tentacle).

[mrproper]

Originally Posted by Doer

This is, of course, easier to notice on mobs that don't miss much and mobs that have an easily identified animation associated with their attack (the caperon swings its tentacle).

Most melee attacks in EU use around 3 different animations, either from mobs or avatars.

If viewing from 3rd person camera, even snables, daikibas and exas show distinct attack animations. Most of the times they exhibit sound cues too.

Keep up the great work guys!

[stefanie firest]

nice research Doer

i have to +rep it

[Stormer]

When does Intuition unlock?

My guess would be lvl 80 Evader

No other skills unlocks over lvl 80 (Killstrike is lvl 80 damage for example and is the uberskill for hunting)

Can anyone confirm this? (even if its not common these days to trigger this uberskill)

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Stormer

When does Intuition unlock?

My guess would be lvl 80 Evader

No other skills unlocks over lvl 80 (Killstrike is lvl 80 damage for example and is the uberskill for hunting)

Can anyone confirm this? (even if its not common these days to trigger this uberskill)

Thanks for bringing that up again Stormer. It seems you are most likely correct, and i have updated the first post to reflect that.

[Trig P]

Read this on Pe-wiki a few weeks back and just ran into it again over here.
Thanks for all of the work. Now if people wouldn't F with you when your trying to collect data

I'm alittle to noob ( ~1.6 evader pro standing) to try to reproduce any of these tests yet, but was wondering if you had time to post in more detal how you collect your data.
So maybe it could be tryied by others, diffrent pro levels, with more Mobs ext.. in the future.

I understand the sweat/fruit method, but was more wondering...
How long did you take hits for.
How many times did you reproduce this.
What was your method to keep the Mob attacking you constantly.
I had more but can't think right now its getting late...

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Trig P

Read this on Pe-wiki a few weeks back and just ran into it again over here.
Thanks for all of the work. Now if people wouldn't F with you when your trying to collect data

I'm alittle to noob ( ~1.6 evader pro standing) to try to reproduce any of these tests yet, but was wondering if you had time to post in more detal how you collect your data.
So maybe it could be tryied by others, diffrent pro levels, with more Mobs ext.. in the future.

I understand the sweat/fruit method, but was more wondering...
How long did you take hits for.
How many times did you reproduce this.
What was your method to keep the Mob attacking you constantly.
I had more but can't think right now its getting late...

Thanks, Trig. If you want to collect some trials it's always useful. It is more so if i can get different evader levels to do so near the same time, of course (in case the values are tweaked now and then).

There is not a high degree of confidence in the caperon values -- it was hard enough to get volunteers with patience that i had to use whatever i could get -- and then i got disgusted with the whole thing before i could complete it. The main problem is that they miss so little that a little "dynamic" variation or a single miscount seriously affect the results. The two tantillion cases i believe i repeated three times (nevermind i just read the earlier posts and i did it 5+ and described how i did it quite thoroughly, i think) with each of the two avatars and when i saw no large variations i left it at that. However, i saw later when counting hits and misses on big mobs while fapping for hire that there are large fluctuations in the results over a relatively long period, which mean i'm skeptical of any data not confirmed by a few different sources with good methodology.

I thought i gave a description of how i did the tantillion tests earlier. For the caperons i simply counted hits and misses (usually with the help of a little program made for counting hits and misses while hunting). I also double-checked the results with FAP decay when possible. The main problem with caperons and other avatars helping me out is that the caperons eventually get bored and start attacking me (the fapper). It worked pretty well to have the other player keep shooting the cap with a mann mph. Of course, that is making the assumption that a mob doesn't miss more when it is being attacked. I have no reason to believe otherwise from my results, but haven't checked it specifically.

Here's a plot with the chomper data on it, too. I only got enough data to do error bars with the one point -- the other two are simple one-run tests.

[tremelo132]

In light of the recent hyper-inflation on uber armor I began rethinking my offense (dmg/sec) approach to hunting. I came across much of the Wiki data presented (and exquisitely embellished on) in this thread regarding the evader professional standing.

I don't pretend to completely understand the data in these charts but the conclusion I came to is that at around Evader 27.5 professional standing you optimize your ability to avoid hits from a mob. I chipped evade and avoidance up to evader 30 professional standing for a fraction of the cost of an armor upgrade.

I have only tested my newfound skills on Aurli and Kreltin (why are these mobs explicitly excluded in your comments?) so far and certainly not with the exactness required by Doer's study. But the results are very good.

Selling Evade 15000%

[Mal]

great work when i looked at the first figure I ws like wait, theres gotts be a curve, linear regression, diminishing returns or sumthing. I'm in calculus atm so it hit me almost immediately, then i scrolled down lol. Great composition u got here, dus ny1 kno if u get better skill increases in evade unarmored? or is it same armored or unarmored.

[maxwellhawk]

Originally Posted by Doer

How they work

Professional standings in EU range from 0 to 100, they determine when unlocked (hidden) skills are obtained, and they are the numbers EU uses to determine your success at the profession. To use an example most players are familiar with, the hit ability (HA) of a weapon (from 0 to 10) is how likely you are to hit a mob with that weapon. It is also equal to the professional standing in the (Hit) for that weapon type, divided by 10 (0 to 100 for pro. standings, remember?). To continue with the hit ability example, an avatar with 0 HA doesn't miss every single shot and with 10 HA it won't hit every time. The actual percentage ranges from about 80% to 92%. It is reasonable to assume that evading will be similar: even a level 0 Evader will successfully evade some attacks, and a level 100 Evader will still take some hits. Just how much difference a high professional standing in Evader makes is a bit hard to measure, but i did some tests to get an idea.


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This is a common misconception (see bold)- this is not necessarily true.