Defense Skills; OR, everything you ever wanted to know about Evade but were too lazy to search for

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Aske

Nice graphs and data.

Questions i have are (maybe someone did experiments) whether anything else besides evade and mob type influences mob hit rate. In specific:

* do you get hit less if you move a little bit (e.g. walk backwards) as mob hits you? (without running faster than mob)

* do you get hit less if you damage mob -- it might be a coincidence but to me it always felt like once i start fapping (instead of hitting mob) i get hit more often.

* what happens if 2 of same mobs hit you at the same time -- do you get hit 2x more on average?

* Does successful mob hit rate depend on how heavy you are?

Those are all good questions, but i haven't directly tested any of them. I know that some here will say that #2 is a definite yes, but my feeling is that you don't -- and i do a lot of fapping while hunting.

Also, the same for #3.

Number 1 i feel might be true, but i think it's more likely an unintended programming defect if so (for example, you occasionally are momentarily out of the mob's hit range when it attacks if you back up).

These are all quite hard to test because of the "dynamic" variation in the hit rate over seconds and minutes and maybe more.

[Rayne Jade]

Originally Posted by Aske

Nice graphs and data.

Questions i have are (maybe someone did experiments) whether anything else besides evade and mob type influences mob hit rate. In specific:

* do you get hit less if you move a little bit (e.g. walk backwards) as mob hits you? (without running faster than mob)

* do you get hit less if you damage mob -- it might be a coincidence but to me it always felt like once i start fapping (instead of hitting mob) i get hit more often.

* what happens if 2 of same mobs hit you at the same time -- do you get hit 2x more on average?

* Does successful mob hit rate depend on how heavy you are?

Great questions - I have wondered this as well. In fact, I do believe that if you hit the mob, it disrupts the attack of the mob. I will walk backwards when fapping, especially with Aurli and I do think it makes a difference. Makes sense that it is more difficult to hit a moving target (you).

Also, I posted this in a thread a while back but not many people seemed interested... it fits here so...

I discovered this when fighting hogglo. Once the beast in on you, imagine that the hogglo is the center of the clock dial. Move left or right in a circle around the hogglo and there is almost always a spot in the circle where you take 1 dmg hits. Camp that spot and let the bullets fly. It works on 9 out of 10 hogglo I fight. It can take a while to find that sweet spot, but it is obviously worth it. When I use this tactic on Aurli, they seem to miss more and thus more evade gains. Has anyone else experienced this? I encourage others to try it.

[Aske]

Originally Posted by Rayne Jade

In fact, I do believe that if you hit the mob, it disrupts the attack of the mob.

From animation of the mob this seems to be so, however if you look at yourself from 3rd person view as mobs hit you -- it looks like your attacks are disrupted too, while they are not.


With hogglo I don't think I can last long enough to find that 1dmg spot - i might try it later on, on some easier mob.

[jjmatrix]

Doer... great work man; like always I might add.
tx

[Rayne Jade]

Originally Posted by Aske

From animation of the mob this seems to be so, however if you look at yourself from 3rd person view as mobs hit you -- it looks like your attacks are disrupted too, while they are not.

True... I have observed the animation from 3rd person as well.

With hogglo I don't think I can last long enough to find that 1dmg spot - i might try it later on, on some easier mob.

Should be noticed on any mob... but would be more difficult to notice on very small ones. I discovered this on hogglo, but I also have seen it with Argos and Aurli. I am curious to see if you notice it as well.

[CorwinBS]

I have always suspected that hitting a mob can interrupt its attack, because when I'm fisting (which hits really rapidly), mobs seem to hit me less often. Could just be an illusion b/c of the multiple small damage messages I get making it seem like it's longer between mob hits. I don't know... maybe it's worth doing some sustained testing on this.

[Svena]

I think their attacks also affect us. The first time I found my self in a tant swarm, I couldnt get my fap to work, they kept hitting me and it wouldnt go off.

High hit rates do affect the mobs hit rate too, comparing a powerfist to a sword is a huge differnce.

[BlackHawk]

I think evade is a very misunderstood profession. Doer did a great work, but he had the chance to compare data for only few mob level and few evader level. All low level.

I can tell from my experience that a higher level of evade dose more than what is recorded in this thread. I suspect - and I am willing to participate in testing in future - that things are more complicated.

EU is skill based. We all have skills. But also mobs.

If is a fight between 2 avatars, this is obvious.

My impression undocumented is that evader level has a direct influence to the opponent HA. In the same time, the mobs deal attack using a "weapon". Mob weapon is similar to a SIB normal weapon. It dose maximum damage for normal skill, and it behaves badly as the skill is lower. Try using H400 with level 1 pistoleer and you will see what I mean.

If my claim is true, evade will cause mobs to fail some atacks until a threshold level is reached. After that, the misses are increased and the minimum damage is affected. Also critical hit ability is lowered.

All this is mob dependent.

I've noticed that on Longu Stalker first. It was impossible for me to tank one. It used to kill me whatever I did. I chipped from level 25 evader some alertness. Reached level 6600 alertnes from 2k or so. The result was that longu stalker could not kill me anymore as it used to. I've put that on the fact that he misses me and I manage to fap, and I kill it fast, but is more to it. Because is not missing me. His reload is changed, and that is something else.

Same thing with Kreltin and Aurli.
I used to have huge problems with adj fap in dome 4. After I chipped up and boosted my evader level to 40 I managed to solo a hunter in gremlin. It takes a long time to kill one, so you see things killing it.. like the fact that in gremlin you get many 1 hits. This never happened while I was at lower evader level. Now I am level 42 evader and can kill majestic in ghoul+5b with UR125 if it dose not crit me. Impossible some time ago.

Would help to know the real influence of evade, so testing it is important. I am a noob yet, but some ubers with level 60-70-90 could help us understand more about how this works.

My assumptions may not be correct, but I'm sure is something more to it than just "mob misses more". Like with our HA... a higher HA dose more than just "miss less". Linear interpolation in efficiency tools is a great help figuring out the economy of normal UL weapons, but is not final or accurate.

If you want to start a testing session, I will do my best to participate and share any info you think is needed and relevant. Working in team would make things easier.

[AkiranBlade]

Originally Posted by BlackHawk

I think evade is a very misunderstood profession. Doer did a great work, but he had the chance to compare data for only few mob level and few evader level. All low level.

...

This is pretty much as I have seen the situation myself for some time. So I second this.

But... add to this the damage being dealt to the mob too. I believe this has an affect. If you were to chip out all your handgun skills, you would find they would start hitting you harder again.

Evader Level + Dmg/sec = Affected Mob HA in loose terms.

BTW, Level 34 Evader and Level 55 Laser Pistoleer seemed to be the start of Hogglo misses FYI

[rhogenbe]

Hunt Hogglo a while.

You will notice that they hit you more often when you are FAPping then when you are shooting at them. This seems to definitely indicate that shooting them disrupts their attack.

That is why having someone else FAP you while you hunt them can be a lot more efficient in several ways.
1. reduces kill time by not having to FAP your self.
2. reduced armor decay due to less hits
3. reduced ammo/weapon decay cost due to less HP to remove for killing a mob (the mob has less time to naturally heal)

Cheers
Richard
(ingame Siam)