The effect of Attributes on Professions

[Gingko]

Hello,

this thread is intended as a supplementary thread to the chipping thread and the other various threads that deal with the impact of skills on professions. The goal is to summarize the effect of the attributes on the professions, as suggested by Witte. As we cannot chip them, most of the work in this thread will be correlation type of work and involve a lot more verification by different avatars.

Summary of general findings / prerequisites:

First of all, the attributes are thought to have a multiplier associated with them, that brings them to the same scale as the skills. At this time, it is thought to be 20. This means, that an attribute of 500 would correspond to a skill of 10000. It is believed that if all contributing skills/attributes are at the old cap of 10000 for skills (and 500 for attributes?), a profession level of exactly 100 would result.

Therefore, the contributions of a skill or attribute to a profession are expressed as %: 10% means that if only this skill was at 10000 and all others are zero, a profession level of 10 (100 * 10%) would be achieved. For attributes, the multiplier has to be considered, so if we say Agility as 10%, then Agility * 20 * 10% is the contribution. All contribution % should add up to 100% for any profession. This has been nicely shown for the Ranged (Sniper, Pistoller) Hit professions here.

Summary of all findings by Attribute:
(it would be a good idea to include the findings from this thread in this list by professions)

Green = confirmed by 3 or more Avatars.
Black = pretty sure but unconfirmed
Red = still guesswork

Agility
8% to Evader, see Evader thread
7% to Brawler (Dmg) and Whipper (Dmg)
3% to all sniper and pistoleer (Hit) professions, see (this thread)
3% to Decoy Dispenser
2% to Knifefighter (Hit), Swordsman (Hit), One and Two handed Clubber (Hit)
2% to Brawler (Hit)
2% to Pet Handler
2% to Colorer
1% to all ranged (Dmg) professions, incl. Mindforce

Intelligence
5% on Paramedic
4% on Tailor (from Wittes data, weight for basic skills like Tailoring miss here)
3% to Colorer
3 % on Prospector and Surveyor (from Wittes data, consistent with my and Jimmy B's Avatar)
2% on all engineer professions
2% on Armor Engineer
2% on Attachments Engineer
2% on Electronics Engineer
2% on Shortblades Engineer
2% on Tool Engineer
2% on Humanoid Investigator
2% on Animal Investigator
2% on Robot Investigator
1% on Mutant Investigator
2% on Pet Handler
2% on Sweat Gatherer (see chipping thread)
1% on Driller and Miner

Strength
7% to melee DAMAGE professions: Knife, Sword, Clubber (1&2)
4% to Swordsman (Hit) and Two handed Clubber (Hit)
3% to One handed Clubber (Hit), Whipper (Hit), Knifefighter (Hit)
3% to Brawler (Hit)

Psyche
5% on Sweat Gatherer (see chipping thread)

Please post your observations in this thread, I will update this post as needed.

[Witte]

Nice work.

I was under the assumption that while using melee weapons you get both strength and agility? Or is one for hit and the other for damage?

Some others I found:

Paramedic: 5% intel
Dodger: 4% agility
Decoy dispenser: 3% agi (assuming you only get agi from it)

If we assume that all melee damage comes from strength we get:

Melee damage: 7% strength

Next assumption: all melee hit professions come from agi:

Heavy melee: 6% agi
Light melee: 5% agi

[Gingko]

Originally Posted by Witte

Nice work.

I was under the assumption that while using melee weapons you get both strength and agility? Or is one for hit and the other for damage?

Some others I found:

Paramedic: 5% intel
Dodger: 4% agility
Decoy dispenser: 3% agi (assuming you only get agi from it)

Thanks!

I am struggling with the melee (hit) professions, it is not that simple there, either some weights are off on the chipping (by 0.5% by rounding? Jimmy B? ) or I made errors there, or the x 20 is wrong (unlikely). It neither fits with Agi nor Str nor with a linear combination of both

Paramedic: 4.75 - 5.05% Int with me, so confirmed once
Dodge: I am missing Dodge skill weight, what did you use?
Decoy Disp.: 2.91 - 3.07% Agi with me, so confirmed once

[Jimmy B]

Nice post Gingko Nothing to add from me at this point so this is mainly a lazy subscribe

The linked posts for the melee percentages refers to (Dmg) not (Hit) unless I'm mis-reading.

Originally Posted by Witte

Nice work.

I was under the assumption that while using melee weapons you get both strength and agility? Or is one for hit and the other for damage?

Could well be both, it seems reasonable that they'd both apply! Slightly tricky to test as Agility gains could be coming from evade, but you should be able to tell after a while. Also, one could be (Hit) and one (Dmg), would seem to me Strength would more apply to (Dmg) and Agility to (Hit) in a realistic making sense sort of way...

[Jimmy B]

Originally Posted by Gingko

I am struggling with the melee (hit) professions, it is not that simple there, either some weights are off on the chipping (by 0.5% by rounding? Jimmy B? ) or I made errors there, or the x 20 is wrong (unlikely). It neither fits with Agi nor Str nor with a linear combination of both

All the large chips that have been eaten for the chipping experiment suggest very strongly that all the percentages involved are whole numbers, with the exception of MF professions.

Its possible there's a data copying error - I checked all the percentages listed for the Pistoleer profession but nothing else yet. If oddities crop up for anything I'll check the relevant images involved. Some chips we've used are quite small, so a few 1% errors will probably crop up sooner or later...

[Witte]

Originally Posted by Gingko

Thanks!

I am struggling with the melee (hit) professions, it is not that simple there, either some weights are off on the chipping (by 0.5% by rounding? Jimmy B? ) or I made errors there, or the x 20 is wrong (unlikely). It neither fits with Agi nor Str nor with a linear combination of both

from the noob avatar I am pretty confident that:

Heavy Melee hit (2 handed clubber and swordsman) 6% attributes (most likely agility)
Light Melee hit (1 handed clubber, brawler, knifefigter) 5% attribures (likely agi)
Whip hit 5% (likely intel)
All melee damage: 7%

Paramedic: 4.75 - 5.05% Int with me, so confirmed once
Dodge: I am missing Dodge skill weight, what did you use?
Decoy Disp.: 2.91 - 3.07% Agi with me, so confirmed once

I took the data from the noob avatar. It had no dodge skill at all.

[Gingko]

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

The linked posts for the melee percentages refers to (Dmg) not (Hit) unless I'm mis-reading.

Corrected above, thanks for catching that!

Originally Posted by Witte

from the noob avatar I am pretty confident that:
All melee damage: 7%

See the correction, another confirmation of the figures

I have the two avatars I am working with (myself and disciple, of latter I have only one set of screenies, she's not been online in parallel to me for a while). I cannot bring the two together with any combination of attributes on the Melee (hit) professions at the moment, I will check my data tomorrow (today is almost over here...). Also, I will post tomorrow an update of the spreadsheet with all the weights, so you can just plug in your figures to check with your own avi... but well.... tomorrow... I had too many beers...

[Jimmy B]

I guess the currently unchipped Martial Arts may clear things up a bit with the melee (Hit) pros when we get it.

Strength 1% seems to fit your data in the spreadsheet best for Knifefighter (Hit) at a quick glance...

Anyway, like I say the %s need a check

[Gingko]

Originally Posted by Witte

Next assumption: all melee hit professions come from agi:

Heavy melee: 6% agi
Light melee: 5% agi

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

Strength 1% seems to fit your data in the spreadsheet best for Knifefighter (Hit) at a quick glance...

This is exactly the issue I am finding...

Knifefighter (Hit):

Myself:
Agility Only 0.57% ... 0.75%
Strength Only 0.93% ... 1.19 %

Disciple (relatively noob):
Agility Only: 3.8% ... 5.6%
Strength only: 1.5 % ... 2.2 %

Disciple matches Witte's n00b nicely but what troubles me is that there is no overlap on the intervals, and disciple is higher in both, so linear combination would not help. Could also mean that I underestimated the error (I use 1/124 for the profession and 1/192 for the skill). I have included the error margins in the new version of the spreadsheet downloadable here.

On the other hand:

Swordsman (Hit):
Myself:
Agility Only 4.33 - 4.49%
Strength Only 7.02 - 7.28%

Disciple:
Agility Only 10.5 - 12.3%
Strength Only 4.1 - 4.8%

Here one Avatar is higher in one, so I can get away with a linear combination, and I do get a prediction within error margins with 2% Agi and 4% Strength for both Avatars

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

I guess the currently unchipped Martial Arts may clear things up a bit with the melee (Hit) pros when we get it.

Not unlocked Martial Arts, so that should not influence the guessing for me at the moment, but for data from higher level Melee Hunters, it would certainly help a lot!

[Gingko]

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

Anyway, like I say the %s need a check

The suspect for me at the moment is Melee Combat, which is incidentally one where you had issues with blurred screenies (screenies further up on that page). Don't have much more time today to look into this