Impact of skills on professions

[Raffaele Meiers]

Originally Posted by Doer

Ah, true. Well, maybe Alertness is bugged, too.

Just feeling melee users got and keep getting shafted the way game mechanics work.

Maybe to level it out between Swordsman and Pistoleer/Rifle MA made Melee Combat contribut 0.1875% to health and Rifle/Handgun only 0.0625% as you get also Dexterity witch contributes 0.125% to health so a ranged skill with the general skill together contributes the same amount as Melee Combat to health for a Swordsman.

[Kedzior]

Thx for answer Jimmy. Yeah that must be the case. Ive lost exactly the part of the level in laser engineer proffesion which my lvl of bpc gives.

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Raffaele Meiers

Maybe to level it out between Swordsman and Pistoleer/Rifle MA made Melee Combat contribut 0.1875% to health and Rifle/Handgun only 0.0625% as you get also Dexterity witch contributes 0.125% to health so a ranged skill with the general skill together contributes the same amount as Melee Combat to health for a Swordsman.

Actually, based on the results in my thread on skill gain ratio, we can assign a "hp factor" to the different combat professions.

Laser Sniper:
1+4 (Agi and Ser) from (Dmg)
+ 3 (Agi) +3*5 (Cour)+3*2 (Dex) + 2 (Perc) + 1 (Ser)+ 3 (CR) + 4*4 (coolness) + 5*2 (CS) + 3*8 (commando) + 39 (Rifle) + 8 (WH) from (Hit)
= 132

Whipper:
7 (Agi) + 5*3 (MC) + 4 (Ser) from Dmg
+ 2 (Agi) + 3 (Str) + 3 (CR) + 4*2 (CS) + 10*3 (MC) + 8 (WH) + 3*5 (Cour) + 2*2 (Dex) + 2 (Perc) + 1 (Ser)
= 102

Whipper has 6 Bravado, so if Bravado contributed a whopping 5 hp/1600 (same as courage), Whipping would give the same ultimate HP as Laser Sniper.

Interesting.

On the other hand, the 24 hp factor contributed by Commando to Sniper isn't really accessible to most players... so if Bravado contributed 1/1600, it would be about equal IMO.

Swordsman:
7 (Str) + 5*3 (MC) + 4 (Ser) from Dmg
+ 2 (Agi) + 4 (Str) + 5 (CR) + 4*2 (CS) + 3*8 (Commando) + 9*3 (MC) + 5*4 (Coolness) + 4*5 (Cour) + 2*2 (Dex) + 2 (Perc) + 1 (Ser)
= 137

Swordsmen (and women :P) use rather different skills, adding Coolness and Commando to the skillset, but losing Weapons Handling. It also includes 7 Bravado, so giving Bravado health benefits would put it rather above sniper.

This assumes the volume equivalent for attributes is 40 as my tests seem to indicate, rather than the 20 that the Pro Standing formula requires. It also assumes that the relative volume gain for the two types of combat are the same.

I think i will submit a support case about the bravado issue. Alertness is a bit different because it's only used in defense, but Bravado not giving HP seems to be an oversight that negatively impacts melee or, at least, whipper. Actually, whipper missing Coolness and Commando both is rather odd. Perhaps that's the error.

[Coffee]

Originally Posted by Doer

Actually, based on the results in my thread on skill gain ratio, we can assign a "hp factor" to the different combat professions.

Laser Sniper:
1+4 (Agi and Ser) from (Dmg)
+ 3 (Agi) +3*5 (Cour)+3*2 (Dex) + 2 (Perc) + 1 (Ser)+ 3 (CR) + 4*4 (coolness) + 5*2 (CS) + 3*8 (commando) + 39 (Rifle) + 8 (WH) from (Hit)
= 132

Whipper:
7 (Agi) + 5*3 (MC) + 4 (Ser) from Dmg
+ 2 (Agi) + 3 (Str) + 3 (CR) + 4*2 (CS) + 10*3 (MC) + 8 (WH) + 3*5 (Cour) + 2*2 (Dex) + 2 (Perc) + 1 (Ser)
= 102

Whipper has 6 Bravado, so if Bravado contributed a whopping 5 hp/1600 (same as courage), Whipping would give the same ultimate HP as Laser Sniper.

Interesting.

On the other hand, the 24 hp factor contributed by Commando to Sniper isn't really accessible to most players... so if Bravado contributed 1/1600, it would be about equal IMO.

Swordsman:
7 (Str) + 5*3 (MC) + 4 (Ser) from Dmg
+ 2 (Agi) + 4 (Str) + 5 (CR) + 4*2 (CS) + 3*8 (Commando) + 9*3 (MC) + 5*4 (Coolness) + 4*5 (Cour) + 2*2 (Dex) + 2 (Perc) + 1 (Ser)
= 137

Swordsmen (and women :P) use rather different skills, adding Coolness and Commando to the skillset, but losing Weapons Handling. It also includes 7 Bravado, so giving Bravado health benefits would put it rather above sniper.

This assumes the volume equivalent for attributes is 40 as my tests seem to indicate, rather than the 20 that the Pro Standing formula requires. It also assumes that the relative volume gain for the two types of combat are the same.

I think i will submit a support case about the bravado issue. Alertness is a bit different because it's only used in defense, but Bravado not giving HP seems to be an oversight that negatively impacts melee or, at least, whipper. Actually, whipper missing Coolness and Commando both is rather odd. Perhaps that's the error.

Something I haven't really looked at in detail, but you may have more info about with the tt study you're doing. I noticed that Swordsman has less total skills contributing to the DMG proffession. Also that Agility seems to give a much greater contribution to DMG. With that being the case (also Kill Strike contributes 10% and not 11%) is it theortically quicker to unlock KS with swordsman if you have less skill areas to raise? (Basing that on the tt spread of skill gain.) The tt total gain would have to be the same between proffessions to hold true, but may not be the case. What are your thoughts on that?

Edit: oops... meant Strength contributes more to swordsman dmg than agility does to ranged dmg.

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Coffee

Something I haven't really looked at in detail, but you may have more info about with the tt study you're doing. I noticed that Swordsman has less total skills contributing to the DMG proffession. Also that Agility seems to give a much greater contribution to DMG. With that being the case (also Kill Strike contributes 10% and not 11%) is it theortically quicker to unlock KS with swordsman if you have less skill areas to raise? (Basing that on the tt spread of skill gain.) The tt total gain would have to be the same between proffessions to hold true, but may not be the case. What are your thoughts on that?

Edit: oops... meant Strength contributes more to swordsman dmg than agility does to ranged dmg.

Yes, i'd say that's a fair statement. If we randomly pick a skill to add to from among the possibilities and add a constant (at least on average) volume to it each time (which seems a decent model of how it really happens), a profession with less skills will raise faster than one with more -- all other things being equal.

[LeeLoo Faith]

Jimmy, sorry for delay. I even did write down Dexerity, just forgot to post it

It was 2709!

[Jimmy B]

Originally Posted by LeeLoo Faith

Jimmy, sorry for delay. I even did write down Dexerity, just forgot to post it

It was 2709!

lol thanks Leeloo!

The numbers still come out a little low then. The decimal part of the attributes could push it up a little bit though and its very close. It could indicate we've got something a little low, maybe FD, but we'll be able to deduce more when you've skilled FD a bit more!

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

Right, I've added the numbers for Projectile Launcher Engineer. Thanks Doer for the help

I think they're right although I won't eat my hat if they aren't.

Witte's data forces Int*20=2% and Engi=26%, then Doer's data forces BPC=28%.

A few of the numbers have been reduced from the normal engi percentages to allow EPWT to get an extra 5%. Also BPC (28%) and Manufacture Weapons (9%) appear to have been switched. My gut feeling is that this was a mistake made when MA implemented the VU, can't be sure but its really odd, so I dropped in a Support Case just in case.

Any response from them on that point, Jimmy?

Originally Posted by Doer

I think i will submit a support case about the bravado issue. Alertness is a bit different because it's only used in defense, but Bravado not giving HP seems to be an oversight that negatively impacts melee or, at least, whipper. Actually, whipper missing Coolness and Commando both is rather odd. Perhaps that's the error.

Originally Posted by MA Support

09 Aug 2007 You wrote:
Hello again

I think perhaps you misunderstood me. I was referring to the design of the skill system, not my own skill history.

As you may know, the assignment of skill contributions to professional standings has been completed by the EU community by chipping and comparison of avatar skills, and two of the assignments for the new Projectile Launcher Engineer profession seem to have been switched unintentionally. It also seems that Bravado may have been overlooked as a skill that should give health. If you could please get a statement from the developers on whether those two apparent mistakes are intentional, I will share it with the other interested members of the community. This is a matter of ongoing concern and a specific answer would resolve it and save you from future questions by others wondering the same. Answering that question also does not require you to reveal any details about the skill system, just that it is implemented as you intended.

Your help in this matter would be much appreciated by the EU community.

13 Aug 2007 Entropia Support:
Hi,

Everything in the skill system is working as intended.

Regards,
Entropia Support

l o l

[PrinceYumil]

Couple of quick questions:

1. Metallurgy is listed with the mining skills, but it is said to be only associated with the Metal Engineer profession. However I noticed that Miner and Prospector are unresolved. Is it possible that Metallurgy influences either of these professions?

2. Are there any skills in the game which have individual effects, besides just influencing professions? I heard a few people say that a high engineering skill gives you a higher output per success when crafting; is there any truth to this? If not, does that mean the only difference between an uber crafter and a beginner is how often t hey succeed, and not how big of a hof they get?

[Pretender]

Originally Posted by PrinceYumil

Couple of quick questions:

1. Metallurgy is listed with the mining skills, but it is said to be only associated with the Metal Engineer profession. However I noticed that Miner and Prospector are unresolved. Is it possible that Metallurgy influences either of these professions?

2. Are there any skills in the game which have individual effects, besides just influencing professions? I heard a few people say that a high engineering skill gives you a higher output per success when crafting; is there any truth to this? If not, does that mean the only difference between an uber crafter and a beginner is how often t hey succeed, and not how big of a hof they get?

1: maybe. we need someone to confirm this as of yet.

2: bit out of context, ill try to explain.

if you have ever crafted (even filters) then you will know that there is a quantity/condition slider. if you have no skills at all, you will see that, if you slide that bar to condition, the yellow/green bar on the left will go lower and lower and go more and more red.

basically, as your crafting skills grow, you can push that slider more and more towards condition without loosing the green stuff. the more green the bar is, the higher the chance of you manufacturing a particular item. however, if you create an item with a condition bar, the higher the quality (=condition) bar is, the higher the potential TT outcome. however, to push that bar to condtion completely, requires quite the amount of skills, if you want to keep the bar green (depending on both the level, and the quality rating of the blueprint, with the exeption of L bp's (blueprints with a x amount of tries before it disapears, they only depend on lvl and the bar, (afaik).

due to the higher chance of failure (and if no-green bar they happen often), alot more get's send into the so-called lootpool. however, upon a succes you will get a high condition item, (meaning, if crafting limited items, if pushed towards condition you will need less residue, in turn meaning that you will have lest cost to manufacture, and dus a potential greater profit), there is a bigger chance of a Hall Of Fame loot, or even an All Time High, but that is the same as the difference between hunting atrox young and hogglo stalker chance of All Time High. basically, you need better skills and equipment...


hope this clears the confusion a bit...:P (altho you are probably even more confused now)