PE|EU WikiTools

[andyzammy]

could you explain the "net value" to me then? im just looking at alertness atm, and i don't understand why in the first pic its 12.05 ped and in the sedond its 10.96 ped

i also thought that because i bumped up the ESI value to 750% then the second pic should reflect that in the "Market Value" column, but it doesn't because those values are identical.

[Doer]

Originally Posted by andyzammy

could you explain the "net value" to me then? im just looking at alertness atm, and i don't understand why in the first pic its 12.05 ped and in the sedond its 10.96 ped

i also thought that because i bumped up the ESI value to 750% then the second pic should reflect that in the "Market Value" column, but it doesn't because those values are identical.

Market Value is the market value of the filled chip. Net value is the market value of the chip minus the cost of the esi (cost of esi is; esi tt * esi market). Have I used the names improperly?

[andyzammy]

Originally Posted by Doer

Market Value is the market value of the filled chip. Net value is the market value of the chip minus the cost of the esi (cost of esi is; esi tt * esi market). Have I used the names improperly?

yes, thats exactly what i thought. in that case, why is the net value on the second pic lower then the net value on the first when i manually updated the market values to be exactgly the same (2200%)?

Edit: also, because the base ESI values are different on each pic, that means that the "Market Values" should be different too but they're exactly the same still.

[Doer]

Originally Posted by andyzammy

yes, thats exactly what i thought. in that case, why is the net value on the second pic lower then the net value on the first when i manually updated the market values to be exactgly the same (2200%)?

Because the ESI markup for the first pic is set to 628% and to 750% for the second. This is reflected in the ESI cost, which then changes the net value even though the market value is the same.

Edit: also, because the base ESI values are different on each pic, that means that the "Market Values" should be different too but they're exactly the same still.

The tt value of chip needed is the same, the ESI markup is different. The market value has nothing to do with the cost of the ESI. It's the market value of the filled chip. Market values of skill chips are not directly a function of ESI prices. In this case, I get the markup from PEAuction and use it to calculate the market value.

Market value is how much you could sell the filled chip for. Net value is how much you make after subtracting the cost of the ESI.

[andyzammy]

ok im beginning to understand. i do think however that you have made it the wrong way around though.

the whole point in having access to the net value of your skills is that you can see how much they're worth w/o having ESI's influence that value at all. so the way that EU|PE Tools works, defeats that object.

yes, net value is market value minus ESI value, but the way you've got it there, its working the wrong way around. you're "stealing" pure skill value when you take away the ESI markup.

it makes no sense that Net value of a skill should change just because the ESI value has changed.. when the ESI hasn't even come into the equasion yet.

the net value (ie value of the skills not in a chip, only in your head) shouldn't change if the markup of the skill doesn't change.

it should be: Net Value + ESI Value = Total Markup

now, i know you have sort of done this, but what you have done, is cancel out the rise in ESI value by lowering the Net Value. this shouldn't happen. the Total Markup should in fact rise by the difference in ESI value rising instead of the Net value falling.

the reason for this is if i buy an ESI overpriced, i want to add that overprice onto the skill im selling and get my money back. this tool doesn't allow for that. i'm not saying thats what i've done lol, its just the only example i could think of that fits what i'm trying to explain

well, this is at least what i was looking for as a feature in your tool. this is imo what should happen once you start making custom adjustments.

[Doer]

Originally Posted by andyzammy

well, this is at least what i was looking for as a feature in your tool. this is imo what should happen once you start making custom adjustments.

Net profits in all my experience are the result of subtracting expenses from income. That is, total chip market value minus the cost of the ESI (and technically the implanter decay, which i did not include of course).

The tools purpose is basically to estimate your skill worth at present market values. If you buy an ESI above market values, you can set the ESI markup to reflect your cost: the tool will tell you what your profits will be. Just because someone pays some % x more for an ESI than market doesn't mean that the market price for the chip made from it is also x% higher: just that their net profit in selling it will be lower.

In other words, you don't set market price; It's a function of the sales history.

What you are proposing is instead of an independent market price for skill chips and ESIs, having a markup over ESI price on skill chips. I can see that might be useful for a calculator function but makes no sense for a market valuation tool. To do it in this tool, you can achieve the same affect by adding that x% to the market price by hand in each column.

I could make a checkbox ooption that would automatically increase/decrease markup values from the PEauction defaults by the same amount that the ESI markup is set above or below PEauction. I want to fix the estimation function from 7-8k using the new data first, though. It will be awhile.

[andyzammy]

oki i understand your way of thinking. but i have always saw the way chipping works as the chipper upper has to pay the fee and not the chipper outter. i've seen that trend ever since the old ESI system. people would take the 80ped esi value away from the actual skill cost wouldn't they.

the cost thing you're on about when you say proffit = income - expenses is a little bogus imo when you're considering skills. it shouldn't really cost you a thing to chip out. but anyway, i understand where you're comming from.

Originally Posted by Doer

I could make a checkbox ooption that would automatically increase/decrease markup values from the PEauction defaults by the same amount that the ESI markup is set above or below PEauction. I want to fix the estimation function from 7-8k using the new data first, though. It will be awhile.

i'll be looking forward to this function. untill then, i'll use that workaround.

gl, PE|EU Tool is still an awesome tool

[Witte]

I dont realy see how it should work the other way around. How can you know the net skill value when you dont look at the ESI price? When ESI price goes up, skill value goes down, and vica versa.

[Doer]

Fortunately i noticed this random comment, since few ubers can be bothered to report such useful information where it will be used.

Pham: Level 10128 with a 6234 PED chip = Level 16062
WikiTools: = Level 15843 --> 1.4% absolute error or 3.7% relative error

Sweet, that's closer than i expected. I'll refine the prediction curve next time i get more data to see if i can find a fit that gives a result closer to this.

[Doer]

It's ba-aaaack. You have to put in your exact avatar name, now: No shortcuts. :P

On the other hand, it should load the skills much faster.

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