PE|EU WikiTools

[Immortal]

<I really really don't know where to post this now I r conufzzd, and too {lazy;tired;drunk} t ocare... but it's cough topical and I posted it in the wrong thread once already >_> >

In another thread where I was answering how to predict agility gains over time... I used 6100-6000 (i.e. 100*agi) to give approximations as to time required hunting... turned out to be a bad example due to continuing fluctuation in the algo at that point...

d(C(x))/dx=sin(g(x))*exp(f(x))

Skill Value	SKill Volume	d(C(x))/dx
5600		214.84		18.89
5700		229.51		14.67
5800		241.2		11.69
5900		257.48		16.28
6000		279.33		21.85

(from here onwards normal exponent d(C(x))/dx=exp(f(x)))

Skill Value	SKill Volume	d(C(x))/dx
6100		298.19		18.86
6200		318.89		20.7
6300		341.39		22.5
6400		365.68		24.29
6500		391.74		26.06
6600		419.57		27.83
6700		449.13		29.56

Just needed to confirm it was (intended to be) piecewise like that...I wondered also if it was consistent across attributes

[Doer]

Sorry, i have no idea what you're saying. Could you explain using more words, please.

[Immortal]

Okay using chipping optimiser (which I assume is based on master-curve (which I can't find any other appropriate thread to post in)) I took a sample skill volume from 6100 to 6000, which ended up giving me an odd result... So I investigated further

Standard master-curve (or whatever it's referred to nowadays) V(x)


dV/dx


Definable dV/dx regions


Discontinuities




So my questions with relation to dV/dx
1) Are those discontinuities intentional?
2) Are the discontinuities consistent with data gathered
3) Is there any reasoning why the function dV/dx changes at those discontinuities
4) Is attribute volume and dV/dx known to be similarly affected? If not... can we assume the function for attributes can be arrived at by deconvoluting the function from dV/dx and removing the sin component?

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Immortal

Okay using chipping optimiser (which I assume is based on master-curve (which I can't find any other appropriate thread to post in)) I took a sample skill volume from 6100 to 6000, which ended up giving me an odd result... So I investigated further

So my questions with relation to dV/dx
1) Are those discontinuities intentional?
2) Are the discontinuities consistent with data gathered
3) Is there any reasoning why the function dV/dx changes at those discontinuities
4) Is attribute volume and dV/dx known to be similarly affected? If not... can we assume the function for attributes can be arrived at by deconvoluting the function from dV/dx and removing the sin component?

The chipping optimizer uses jdegre's fit to the skill volume curve. I imagine he made it piecewise, as did i. You should inquire about that in the chipping optimizer thread.

You will find some transitions if you use the wikitools calculator (my fit), although i did smooth between functions by moving through a weighted average of the two at the transition. It's one of the reasons the tt->level inverse is a bit "jumpy".

These come about because there was no one function that perfectly fit all the data. I used exponentials and sines and i think polynomials for some segments. You can read through the last bit of the thread where we worked through it to see the impressions and so forth: Fill up ESI data...

[Immortal]

Had a problem with getting correct values on progress calc for health. I double checked with Chipping Optimiser which gives correct values.

Pretty please can you add some sword dmg/hit

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Immortal

Had a problem with getting correct values on progress calc for health. I double checked with Chipping Optimiser which gives correct values.

Pretty please can you add some sword dmg/hit

What specifically was the discrepancy for the health? Was it over or under, and by how far?

I haven't had more than a few minutes at a time to think EU for the last few weeks and it's all spent on EF and convincing myself that the multitarget chipping calculator algorithm is correct. Knowing that there's interest for the progress tool will be enough to shift my attention that way next time i can code.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Immortal]

Originally Posted by Doer

What specifically was the discrepancy for the health? Was it over or under, and by how far?

I haven't had more than a few minutes at a time to think EU for the last few weeks and it's all spent on EF and convincing myself that the multitarget chipping calculator algorithm is correct. Knowing that there's interest for the progress tool will be enough to shift my attention that way next time i can code.

Thanks for the feedback.

Yeah I'm intending to start using it to compare predictions short term vs longterm, and see how those work when it comes to the actual amount of work required. I'm regularly logging intervals of 3k weapon expense so the data sets should be coherent.

I did a check on all individual skills to see if there were any unexpected skill health contributors affecting it: there aren’t. Starting health with all values=1 is 89.2

Health consistently over by 0.9-1.0

A couple of future features that would be nice:

• Skill level prediction
  How long to get individual skills up to a certain level (say i set a goal of shortblade skill to 4000, i can then compare it to data gathered via the chipping optimiser and my own expenses datas to how much cheaper it is to naturally skill)
• Extraneous professions prediction
  What the Profession levels might look like will be when reaching said goal (similar to chipping optimiser output where affected professions are listed)
  e.g. while I might like to skill health, some of those gains will contribute to evader as well
  
• automatic "% contribution TT calculation"
  I could use this to quickly see how those skills that contributed to the profession gain were distributed (by TT value)

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Immortal

Yeah I'm intending to start using it to compare predictions short term vs longterm, and see how those work when it comes to the actual amount of work required. I'm regularly logging intervals of 3k weapon expense so the data sets should be coherent.

I did a check on all individual skills to see if there were any unexpected skill health contributors affecting it: there aren’t. Starting health with all values=1 is 89.2

Health consistently over by 0.9-1.0

A couple of future features that would be nice:

• Skill level prediction
  How long to get individual skills up to a certain level (say i set a goal of shortblade skill to 4000, i can then compare it to data gathered via the chipping optimiser and my own expenses datas to how much cheaper it is to naturally skill)
• Extraneous professions prediction
  What the Profession levels might look like will be when reaching said goal (similar to chipping optimiser output where affected professions are listed)
  e.g. while I might like to skill health, some of those gains will contribute to evader as well
• automatic "% contribution TT calculation"
  I could use this to quickly see how those skills that contributed to the profession gain were distributed (by TT value)

Ok, i added brawler, whipper and swordsman. It should be possible to print out a list of all the skills along with the volume gain and i will try to add it later tonight. The other things will be more involved.

[wizzszz]

Originally Posted by Immortal

I did a check on all individual skills to see if there were any unexpected skill health contributors affecting it: there aren’t. Starting health with all values=1 is 89.2

Health consistently over by 0.9-1.0

Oh noes - don't tell me you have health predicted wrong by Jdegres Chipping Optimizer...

Base health is 88.00, influence of the attributes/skills is listed here
(should be the same values the chipping optimizer uses, not sure if wikitools were updated with the new contribution values for attributes)

Do you, by chance, have any of the unlocks listed under "contribution to health still unknown"?

[Doer]

Originally Posted by wizzszz

Oh noes - don't tell me you have health predicted wrong by Jdegres Chipping Optimizer...

Base health is 88.00, influence of the attributes/skills is listed

FYI i use 88.8 as the base health. Can't remember why except that it fit best last time i compared a few different avatars. That could account for almost one hp overprediction if it's off.

I added the skill volumes to the progress calculator. It also lists % contributions for comparison. If you find any discrepancies, please let me know. Tailoring is probably off...