Answer to the monthly "rise the sweat price" thread

[Alice]

Originally Posted by Mega

You may calculate at 300 sweat per hour, but thats not what your day old new player gets - no where near. You are saying there is 450k sweat produced a DAY. No chance.

check how many ME is sold each day
thats around 450k-500k
and one ingredient is sweat, so i guess it has to come from somewhere

Originally Posted by Mega

Your average new player logs on, trys to control his avatar, has a wander around, gets killed by a monster, asks for a gun plz , does a little bit of sweating (100-200 maybe) and logs off never to be seen again. Your post seems to suggest that the majority log on for 4 hours sweat 1000 and sell it.
They just dont, simple as that.

i think they do, and thats due to a simple reason
i came from,err, cant mention, something with sorceresses but without orks :P
and you earned money with hunting there

if you have a simimlar mmo background, you will, and i really say, at all cost, get a weapon and some cash to start to get money
even if that doesnt work, you will try til that, many did
and that is how i explain the 2 days quitting rate which i confirmed with many disciple and i guess other ppl will confirm that too

Originally Posted by Mega

It would have been better if youd have said supply is greater than demand and left it at that - I agree with that but not with huge numbers plucked out of thin air

as i already said, 450k ME sold each day
you might take a look yourself, last time i watched it was around that

edit,

my thin air:



as you can see, just today 240k ish
and the evening when the ppl come back from work hasn't started yet

the week average is already around 400k

the month at 320 000, but a couple of days to go

and remember, now the weekends starts, i bet we top the 400 000 average this month

[Mega]

Originally Posted by Alice

so you have
300 000 sweat (from newbies on day 2) +150 000 (newbies day 1)
= 450 000 sweat per day

2,100,000 /7 = 300k by my reckoning Alice.

Your 450k were based on NEW PLAYERS too. Day 1 / 2.

Not the whole of Calypso which includes prolific sweat gatherers, many of which are over 1000 SG.

[Alice]

Originally Posted by Mega

2,100,000 /7 = 300k by my reckoning Alice.

Youre 450k were based on NEW PLAYERS too. Day 1 / 2.

Not the whole of Calypso which includes prolific sweat gatherers, many of which are over 1000 SG.

divide by 5, its friday
20/5 = 4

funny you didnt mention that i said new players before, maybe a try to make it look better in the end? :P

you you said yourself they just play 1 hour and quit

that sweat is never sold...
but lets assume there are some k lost each time for every 5 newbies
and it starts to fall, no ?

how many professional sweat gatherers are outta there and how much do they sweat each day?
100k? 200k?

it is a funny throwing around with numbers
i bet we could do that all day proving either one point or another

but basics are this

there are 150 newbies joining each day, say they quit after 2 days
so you have every second day 300 newbies

an opalo, or lets say a m2100, cost 2.2 ped, some ammo, say 4 ped

thats 800 sweat at 0.5, lets be generous and say 600
per newbie, per hunting equipment

i assume most will do it, so

that is below my calculation of course, but maybe the newbie does a last attempt and tries to do a last hunt, so he might sweat to 1000

i bet we could think of thousands of scenarios either proving my point or yours

but til now, mainly i gave the numbers, and all are plausible ^^

[Mega]

Originally Posted by Alice

divide by 5, its friday
20/5 = 4

funny you didnt mention that i said new players before, maybe a try to make it look better in the end? :P

you you said yourself they just play 1 hour and quit

that sweat is never sold...
but lets assume there are some k lost each time for every 5 newbies
and it starts to fall, no ?

how many professional sweat gatherers are outta there and how much do they sweat each day?
100k? 200k?

it is a funny throwing around with numbers
i bet we could do that all day proving either one point or another

but basics are this

there are 150 newbies joining each day, say they quit after 2 days
so you have every second day 300 newbies

an opalo, or lets say a m2100, cost 2.2 ped, some ammo, say 4 ped

thats 800 sweat at 0.5, lets be generous and say 600
per newbie, per hunting equipment

i assume most will do it, so

that is below my calculation of course, but maybe the newbie does a last attempt and tries to do a last hunt, so he might sweat to 1000

i bet we could think of thousands of scenarios either proving my point or yours

but til now, mainly i gave the numbers, and all are plausible ^^

ME Sales:

Day 247k today (day isnt over)
Week (300k a day average)
Month (293k a day average)
Year (220k a day average)

You didnt concede the 450k sweat per day point so I just thought Id emphasise it again.

I dont like it when people put words into my mouth Alice. I didnt say they play 1 hour and quit.

How many professional SG out there? No idea. How much do they get? No idea.

150 Newbies is based on what an MA guide told you - youre taking their word as gospel? He could be exaggerating - I find people do exaggerate with numbers some times.

Originally Posted by Alice

i assume most will do it, so

If you assume, you make an ass out of u and me

[KeynesAlley]

Originally Posted by KP708

And the winner of this year's award for patiently explaining points several times until they become clear is....Alice again.

I thought the criticism of the OP was: "it was cheaper to skill a year or 2 ago, and as a consequence players who joined a year or 2 ago are now really highly skilled and so are much more eco than newbies"

Now it seems to have become: "I'm using an uneco weapon and can't get as good eco as a player who joined 2 years ago".

I'm totally confused by the direction of the argument. I thought what the critics of Alice's post were saying was
- it was easier to skill 1 or 2 years ago than it is now
- this makes it harder for a newbie to be eco now than it was 1 or 2 years ago

Surely what a player who joined 2 years ago can do now has nothing to do with it. Sure Alice can wipe out some big mobs in a few swipes with her longblades skill (much less eco than I can with my opalo + a decent fap probably). She has over 6k LB skill, and can use a good weapon, because she has been playing for 2 years.

There's no point comparing Alice's eco now with a newbie's, or yours or mine. (Well for that matter comparing eco, a newbie comes out on top once they have maxed their opalo which is not a huge task even for a non-depositor). There's also no point comparing how quickly she can kill a mob compared to a newbie or you or me.

That's a meaningless comparison.

At best you want to compare how it was for her when she started playing, against a newbie now.

But even that is meaningless because EU is so different. So much else has changed.

Also I recall the point made was: "skills matter because they make you more eco, therefore if you could skill faster (which some are saying you could 1 or 2 years ago) you get to a more eco position more quickly"

Well that might be a fair argument, except it doesn't take much skilling to get the opalo maxed, and while some weps are slightly more eco than an opalo+A101, it's pretty good. So all the rest of the skilling is pretty much useless for making a player more eco. You can single-shot kill a snable male young with a maxed opalo+A101 if you get a crit. That's about as eco as you can get.

Of course a newbie walking out of the NAZ can't achieve this. You need to do some skilling clearly.

I think perhaps what the critics of the OP are really saying is that higher skills allow you to use weapons which let you kill more fun mobs moderately economically, and it will take newbies now a lot longer to get to that stage than newbies 2 years ago could. Maybe true, maybe not, but that is totally unrelated to whether a newbie wep now is more or less eco than any other weapon.

Frankly if you want to kill 'fun' mobs you can do it with an opalo. Average dmg per shot (2 x ammo) for a maxed opalo+A101 = 8 (near enough, from observation and 20 kills). HP of longu Y 310. That's 10 shots each for 4 opalo-bearers. Go on a team hunt and kill fun mobs that way.

You are exactly right.

Nothing should ever be compared. EVER!!!!!!!

So this thread should be deleted because even in the OP it used comparisons between then and now.

/end sarcasm


Anyway, YES, Alice got her skills at a much cheaper cost, both in real cash and playing time than is currently possible. She even partially admitted this. This gives her a huge range of eco weapons to choose from, but she refuses to use them while saying that newbs are more eco than her. If I remember right, she said she has maxed out the Opalo. So why isn't she using the most uber eco weapon {according to her} in the game?

She seem to fail to realize, that with her current weapon, while it may be a bit less eco than some other weapons, she more than makes up for it because she can kill mobs that drop high mark up loot.

There's also the issue of "newbs have it better because (L) weapons are more eco". I tried to show that it isn't always true, with my 2 examples, but for whatever reason, that was completely dismissed. The point is, some may be more eco, but not all of them. Also, some are more eco for certain things than others.

[KeynesAlley]

there are 150 newbies joining each day, say they quit after 2 days
so you have every second day 300 newbies

Didn't someone say something about not using stats you didn't make up yourself?

Or is that what happened here?

[Mikah]

Originally Posted by KeynesAlley

Anyway, YES, Alice got her skills at a much cheaper cost, both in real cash and playing time than is currently possible. She even partially admitted this. This gives her a huge range of eco weapons to choose from, but she refuses to use them while saying that newbs are more eco than her. If I remember right, she said she has maxed out the Opalo. So why isn't she using the most uber eco weapon {according to her} in the game?

She seem to fail to realize, that with her current weapon, while it may be a bit less eco than some other weapons, she more than makes up for it because she can kill mobs that drop high mark up loot.

There's also the issue of "newbs have it better because (L) weapons are more eco". I tried to show that it isn't always true, with my 2 examples, but for whatever reason, that was completely dismissed. The point is, some may be more eco, but not all of them. Also, some are more eco for certain things than others.

In EU, you sacrifice between Damage and Skill Gain...
If you have maxed out on a certain weapon, you will get less skills than a weapon that you haven't maxed out, obviously...

So the question lies in, what do you value more, skills or damage? Nowadays, its easier for newcommers to maximize their damage due to the introduction of (L) items, which gives a huge advantage to those who don't have much skills, but to the 10/10 HA on an (L) weapon as opposed to before, when one had to skill up more to be able to use certain weapons...

Of course the people who skilled before got more skills than now, its obvious, it isnt debatable- but those are the people that supported EU in the earlier stage, that made Entropia what it is now, shouldn't they be rewarded for believing in a product before it made it "Big"?

It's the same way IRL, look at Euros, in the beginning everyone thought it would just go downhill, look at the people who invested on euros in the earlier times and how they are rewarded now that its stronger than the dollar...look at the beta players who managed to buy mod faps and all the toys that are now outrageuously priced.. what is there to debate about?

Nowadays, its easier to gain more sweat sweating, as the pulls have been increased as well as there is no longer a sweat cap... unlike before. Now, you have (L) weapons that allow you to have more damage with lower skills.

Earlier players not only dealt with the uncertainly of progress or future of Entropia, but also with the fact that they had to skill much more to be able to use higher weapons, in order to get a better HA. Now, anyone can have a 10HA with the right (L) weapon...

It doesn't take a genius to understand the above.

In my personal opinion, it IS easier to start nowadays than before, you can't actually expect people to pay for your gameplay sweating and this all comes down to perspective... the truth of the matter is that many new players come to EU with unrealistic expectations... and this is where the problem lies...

"Kill Mobs, Get Paid" I remember used to be the slogan for PE before. If im not mistaken, this thread is about sweat prices, not about economical weapon usage...blame Mindark for luring you into False Advertisement, but certainly do not expect Mindtropians to pay more for an unfinished, flawed and dead end profession... just so sweaters can play the way they want to play.

And if your so concerned about low-paid sweaters, skill up Mindforce and start paying 1.0 pec a bottle... Im sure you will increase the demand then...

[KeynesAlley]

In my personal opinion, it IS easier to start nowadays than before, you can't actually expect people to pay for your gameplay sweating and this all comes down to perspective... the truth of the matter is that many new players come to EU with unrealistic expectations... and this is where the problem lies...

Actually, if you look back through this thread, it's pretty much been conceded that starting 1 year ago was better than starting now.

If im not mistaken, this thread is about sweat prices, not about economical weapon usage

Go back and read POINT 2 of the OP.

You will see where weapon eco comes in to this thread.

[Lighterthief]

Originally Posted by KeynesAlley

Anyway, YES, Alice got her skills at a much cheaper cost, both in real cash and playing time than is currently possible. She even partially admitted this. This gives her a huge range of eco weapons to choose from, but she refuses to use them while saying that newbs are more eco than her. If I remember right, she said she has maxed out the Opalo. So why isn't she using the most uber eco weapon {according to her} in the game?

yep alice got her skills cheaper than you, and you will get ur skills cheaper than the ppl who start in the next year... thats life in eu, get over it

i dont see what the opalo has to do with this thread tho, but if alice is recomending to noobs to use opalo, then thats her call, would it be better to recomend a ml or a adj V1? :p i dont take disciples but if i did i would be recomnding a opalo/breer as a starting gun, cheap eco fun while learning the game

Originally Posted by KeynesAlley

She seem to fail to realize, that with her current weapon, while it may be a bit less eco than some other weapons, she more than makes up for it because she can kill mobs that drop high mark up loot.

i am not qute sure how to take this......
imo weapon eco is not the be-all or end-all, for example a hig dmg/sec weapon will save u on fap costs and armor decay, but will cost more in decay, a lot is down to hunting style and tactics.
but... i would tell ppl to start by looking at weapon eco, its as good a place any to start

and high markup loot.... what mobs are those? lol hehehe
seriously tho why do u care what alice can hunt? or what her eco is? eu is many many ppl on many many lvls, and i can tell u now, most of them will have better eco than a fresh noob

Originally Posted by KeynesAlley

There's also the issue of "newbs have it better because (L) weapons are more eco". I tried to show that it isn't always true, with my 2 examples, but for whatever reason, that was completely dismissed. The point is, some may be more eco, but not all of them. Also, some are more eco for certain things than others.

lol

its a bit like me saying my great great great great grandfather had it better as a house only cost $1 ...... yes stuff was cheaper, but way of life was different too

and i think thats quite apt for EU as well