Answer to the monthly "rise the sweat price" thread

[Alice]

after several (douzens, houndreds?, who counted them all) sweat price threads where the same stuff was mentioned all the time over and over again, i became a bit lazy
so, i decided to write my standard answer here, with some of the points in other threads

to the possible sweater who sees a lenghty post:
if you consider to finance your way with sweating, it is going to take a long time
this little thread won't make a difference then

it will also allow you to see not just your own side, means your own pocket
this will open some other points of views and maybe even horizons for you
so, if you want an insight about sweat prices,maybe even with some "historical" data from when i started, you should read it

anyway, here we go

point 1: Supply and Demand

the supply looks like this

we have around 150-200 newbies joining every day (according to an MA guide), so lets assume there are 150 sweaters every day
an opalo cost 3.8 ped, and you need some ammo too
so, say you need 1000 sweat to get this

150*1000 = 150 000 sweat from the newbies on the first day
standard quitting time for newbies is after 2 days, so lets assume they would sweat 1k each day

so you have
300 000 sweat (from newbies on day 2) +150 000 (newbies day 1)
= 450 000 sweat per day

just from newbies who quit after 2 days, not to mention hardcore sweaters who do it for fun and skills
kinda much, huh ?

the demand

sweat is used produce mind essence (ME), it is refined with force nexus

ME is the "ammo" for the various mind force chips outta there
there are attack chips, heal chips, focus chips, and tp chips
they usually require immense skills to have a decent eco, and the skills in rise slowly

now, in that order
attack chips are hilarious uneco, and are beaten by 90% of the normal weapons like rifles and handguns
so, not many ppl use these, low demand for ME

heal chips
inferior to 80% of the faps
lower speed, worse eco, slow rising skills...
usually and often used to heal sweaters
but still, for the standard hunter out there no real use,
so, low demand from those

focus chips
with a focus charge you won't lose concentration if youre hit, so, just a use for MF users who might be hit
since the attack and heal chips are not really used in combat (see above) that mainly means, used on and by sweaters
demand still quite low

tp chips
enable you to tp in a certain radius, saving you run time
since most ppl tend to tp instead of to run (well, who of us owns a car to drive to work or whatever, and who is using a bus?, besides, yes, i drive too)
so i guess one of the main demands is here


but overall, considering a 450 000 sweat supply each day, the demand looks kinda puny

(just to mention it, there are around 500-k ME sold each day if I'm not mistaken)

------------------

point 2: the fairness or "but price had been higher once!!"
and "newbies have it soooooo bad nowadays"

the absolute price, yes, even the relative one some time, but that had other reasons

when i started, the max amount per pull was 5 not 22
it took around 1 hour to get 100 sweat
highest price at that time was 1.3
so, our 1.3 ped per hour maximum(since i assumed the best price)

nowdays you get 300 sweat per hour quite easily (several ppl more around 500, but lets say 300 to stay low)
lowest price ive seen was 0.5
so, you have 300*05 = 1.5 ped per hour minimum
(since i assumed lowest sweat per hour and lowest price)

now, the price was indeed 1.3 back in the days, due to sweat cap
but still, it was JUST 1.3
there were several things that made the price low, here some of them

ppl used "sweat bots" since there were some possibilities to use barriers to sweat mobs; that is not possible anymore, now mobs are trapped
as soon the trapping was introduced, and the barrier sweating didn't work anymore, the sweat bots became useless
and price went to around 2.0

new methods had to be found, and the "sweat above them from a hill or spaceship" method was discovered
changes in the trapping programming, didn't work anymore
bang, price 4.4
but just a week
as soon new tactics were found (more group sweating at troy/neas, nowdays the easy to reach swamp camp) the supply became better again, so price fell
also due to a increase of joining newbies imo, but that isn't confirmed

"but there was a sweat cap, i want it back !!"
any idea how many of the 600 000 accounts we have currently, are actually second avatars, created with the purpose of sweating?
or, asked from another point, how many of those 600 000 ppl do you see?
so, the sweat cap was mainly removed imo to stop this insane amount of secondary avas just created to sweat til the cap, transfer sweat to main ava, make new ava, sweat again
the sweat cap didn't hold ppl who wanted to sweat before, therefore it is simply useless

another thing when i started
at that time there was no opalo at the trade terminal, there was the busho
this was an extremly crappy rifle for newbies, pretty bad eco, so they had to get a jester d1, with tt+

nowdays, the opalo beats the jester d1, in case of eco and price
every weapon in the tt is now better than what there was when i started i might add

when i started there was also the fap5 at the tt, cost 15 ped, nowadays the vivo, 9 ped

so, nowadays newbies are able to buy a fap with SIB, better average heal, lower healing cost (vivo around 0.9 pec per use, fap5 1 pec) at a lower price

---------------------

point 3, the attitude and manners
so, i already pointed out that the heal and focus chips are mainly used on sweaters, to make their life easier

those ppl can go through 10 000 ME easily per day
they spend their TIME and CASH to make it easier for newbies (yes, they get skills too, but there would be other options)

they don't even get a "thanks" sometimes (ive been there too healing newbies, the most things i got was "HEAL !!!11!!" or "FOCUS 1!!!1!!", usually with a up and down jumping newbie)

so, what would does this "rise the sweat price" revolution send as a message, especially regarding to these healers and focussers

"We appreciate that you heal and focus us, so we can get sweat faster and easier, but please, pay a bit more for the right to heal and focus our precious beings!"

...
is that your message, honestly?

on the other hand, these ppl work RL, deposit to have cash in EU, use MF to heal and focus newbies, which is taking pretty big sums, i can tell you
and you want them to pay more from the cash they earned in RL just to give you an easier free ride?
or to say it drastically, you want THEM to pay for YOUR entertainment?

-------------------

point 4, "price is soo low! I'm opressed"
actually, no, you aren't
it is a game(or universe, whatever)
you choose out of free will to play
you choose out of free will not to deposit
you choose out of free will to sweat

there is noone forcing you to sweat
(stop reading here for a short time, say 10 seconds,
turn your head
Is there anyone pointing a gun at you forcing you to sweat?
no?)

so, basically you choose to play this, not to deposit, and use an ingame method to earn the cash for your gameplay, or to test the game
alright, live with it ^^

-------------

point 5
"but it is work"
i hope not actually, for you

you get say 1.5 ped per hour with sweating
thats 0.15$

it depends ofc whats your time worth for you
but if you don't like sweating, means you don't do it for fun, if you do it just to get cash, you might consider to mowe the lawn and deposit that cash
mowing the lawn might cost around 1-2 hours
you might get say 5$
thats around 50 ped !

or 10 000 sweat in 2 hours at 0.5 !

------------

conclusion

if you really really want to rise the sweat price, there is one very effective way

1. STOP SWEATING ASAP AND DEPOSIT SOME CASH

that way already 1 supplier is out of the game
so there will be less supply already
if you want an even higher price

2. START SKILLING MIND FORCE BIG TIME

that means, buy 10 000 ME each day, or rather, buy 10 000 sweat and nexus each each day, and use it up completely

this way you not even stop being a supplier, you even become a buyer
that way there is less supply (higher sweat price) AND more demand (higher sweat price)

the main problem with tactic 2, is that don't have much from the higher sweat price

actually, more the opposite, since you suddenly need it, and a higher price in sweat is not that nice then

------------

alright, thats it
i might add that i didn't do any flaming here, and i want to keep it that way, just my opinions and thougts

i might edit that if i forgot any point and think its worth to mention it

thx for reading

[NastyCenturion]

I think a pop up window is required when making a thread in sweating or noob's corner. It would sound like
"If u are thinking of making a sweat price raise attempt u will receive a 1 month ban, regards 711"

[KP708]

Originally Posted by Alice

150*1000 = 150 000 sweat from the newbies on the first day
standard quitting time for newbies is after 2 days, so lets assume they would sweat 1k each day

so you have
300 000 sweat (from newbies on day 2) +150 000 (newbies day 1)
= 450 000 sweat per day

just from newbies who quit after 2 days, not to mention hardcore sweaters who do it for fun and skills

I'm not 100% sure why newbies sweat twice as much on day 2 compared to day 1. If anything there would be less because some will quit after 1 day, but then it gets complicated, because some stay more than 2 days. Also sweating on the first day with no evade and no ability is very very hard. So I don't know how many would actually achieve 1k on day 1.

But still you also, as you say, have the experienced sweaters who probably each gather at least 1k per day, probably more. So if anything there is more sweat gathered than you say.

Of course a lot of it probably just ends up in storage

Anyway great idea to have a standard answer to the sweat price threads. (You wouldn't just be trying to boost your efds by starting a controversial thread would you? )

Either way, + rep for a detailed post

Edit: You must spread.... damn...well I tried

[Jaas]

Great Post BTW!!! +reps

But on the side of the Noob. In the beginning of the game, the EU Help/ Stations do tell you there are 3 ways to get free PED. Fruit/Dung, Oil at the rig, and Sweating.

So the noob, may take that as, hey this could be very easy or lucrative. And for someone who has never read this board or any other explaining the whole Free Ped/Economy situation, AND they see in the chat window, people selling and buying sweat, they are going to assume that it is a very easy way to make some quick money.

But I agree with you completely, on this. Just playing devil's advocate here

[Blackjack]

Alice, I started to write something very deep and profound concerning this subject. But then I happened to glance over at your avatar and...."jiggle, jiggle, jiggle...." Wait a minute.... What was I saying?

Damn.
Blackjack

[Alice]

Originally Posted by KP708

I'm not 100% sure why newbies sweat twice as much on day 2 compared to day 1. If anything there would be less because some will quit after 1 day, but then it gets complicated, because some stay more than 2 days. Also sweating on the first day with no evade and no ability is very very hard. So I don't know how many would actually achieve 1k on day 1.

But still you also, as you say, have the experienced sweaters who probably each gather at least 1k per day, probably more. So if anything there is more sweat gathered than you say.

Of course a lot of it probably just ends up in storage

no need to make it too complicated
and i really guess the 450 000 per day are indeed too low

err, got 16k left in storage
actually, i have it as teaser
when I'm at the NAZ, and a newbie comes like
"how much sweat should i gather?"
i say "1000 to rather 10 000"
"but that is sooo much"
"nah, got 10 000 in storage myself"
:sober:

Originally Posted by KP708

Anyway great idea to have a standard answer to the sweat price threads. (You wouldn't just be trying to boost your efds by starting a controversial thread would you? )

nah, i got some left
there isnt that much need to make cheap threads to increase it

besides, i had made a poll then (gives more EFD)

[e-lite]

OMG Alice that roxX!

make this thread sticky noooow!!

[Moonfish]

Nice Post Alice,

Just posting my thoughts on Noobs arriving & then leaving.. Humm well, from my experience....

It took me 3-4 days to work out how to walk - use the controls - work out the terminals where they were & how they worked.

I finally worked out how to sweat & headed off to Camp Phenix - where I sweated & ran to new tp's for months...

I exchanged Sweat for a Jester D-1 eventually, after a few weeks playing - However I never used it for a long time....

I can not see how a new person can arrive learn to play & see the place in 1-2 days..... takes weeks to look around & see the planet & get to work out how to get to CND which was why I joined the game from the news I read in the Times Newpaper.

A big mistake for new people is to buy a weapon - you doint know how to use it & will loose your few peds so quickly......

Reading the forums was the best help for me - no idea how new people can come & leave in 1-2 days - this game takes months to work out.. Well Ive been playing for 2 years now & I'm still confused..

Good Luck everyone
Moonfish

[Chopper]

Yessiree Bobby... Great Thread, Alice.. +rep

Well said indeed.

I love the pop up idea too, This thread shoved In Your Face if you even start to think about writing a Sweat Price Thread...

It could finish with Depo is your Friend...