Sweat Price

[Hanna]

Would you buy sweat at 0.1 if someone could justify it?

There are several things in EUs economy that's "off". A struggling "middleclass" are paying for not just the giant globals and HoFs of the advanced crafters and hunters, but also every selfmade man or woman in EU. With the star crafters, miners, and hunters it can be justified. Chances are they have spent a lot of time and money getting where they are. With the orange jumpsuits who gather exesive amounts of sweat to sell, it isnt. If you spend a good week sweating you will accumulate a lt of sweat, atleast 10k. This is then sold for 50-60 ped.

You might not see a problem, you might even think well done OJ, a self made man in a harsh environment. Consider this, when someone who has contributed nothing, gathers 50 ped, or 100, or 500, mindark doesnt pay for it. Nor does Neverdie or skallman or any other high profile player. Every selfmade player, promotion, or guide, is paid for by the struggling middle class. Every Hof, Global, or sweat trade doesnt just pop up from nowhere like in other games, it all comes from mindarks turnover, their income, which in turn is paid for by depositers, first timers and regulars.

There are many pervers phenomenas in EU. Why a birght green lime coat is 300 ped I will never understand. You would never get me to wear a thing like that in the real world, even if I was paid. How a gun can be cheaper than a small pall stol is also surreal.
But the price of sweat, that is somehting that can be changed without affecting the turnover of any established player, and would only hurt the freeloaders. It is artificially high even at 0.6, people might stop sweating if it drops too low, but at the moment the supply is still higher than that of nexus. I cant help but think it's this high because people are afraid to be seen as cheapscates if they give an "unfair" price, so this is an attempt to justify paying 0.5 or less, and with a clean conscience.

Before you judge me consider this, I dont buy or sell sweat. The little I use I usually gather for myself or get from my diciples at a very generous rate from my side. Since it's more motivating than just giving them a rifle and ammo, and weeds out any diciple just there for freebies. I would have no short term gain from a pricedrop in sweat, but it would help the economy and as such, all regulars would have a lng term gain....except the largescale traders who would get a (tiny) dent in their profits, and the freeloaders.

[CycoKick]

Well i really dont fucking care to be honest
And i could point out a million of reasons to counter everything you say.
But i wont as im to lazy and not in the mood to do so and start a new discussion about this shit.

[Hanna]

Well if you didnt fucking care then why did you reply to it at all

[desg90]

Originally Posted by CycoKick

... And i could point out a million of reasons to counter everything you say.
But i wont as im to lazy and not in the mood to do so and start a new discussion about this shit.

Same here. But, I'll give it a try.

I see you aren't considering the amount of time invested by sweaters.
To have any gains one has to spend a week or even a month doing nothing but sweat mobs, aggressive mobs BTW. It's not a fun activity to do, but time = money and vice-versa.

Sweaters invest lots of time to gain some money.
And Mindtropians invest lots of money to gain some time.

In any case sweater efforts seem to be underestimated.
Sweaters provide a service for lazy Entropians, that should be a good enough excuse to request payment, don't you think?
I'm surprised people won't pay a tip or something.

And I seriously don't think of sweating as a "cancer".
It's a part of the economy, and if MA hasn't stopped it... it mustn't be that bad!

[Kerham]

You're in a paradox here. You joined EU coz it's for free, but you don't want other players to experiment for free

The biggest problem of EU is human greed -> stupid comunity wanting higher and higher hofs.

The markup is a natural mechanism and without it, the EU itself wouldn't exist. Way much more important than the markup of sweat is the markup of blausarium. And with tremendous higher effect.


P.S.: the price isn't regulated by MindArk, the droprate and accessibility of it is. If tomorrow MF update would come, with same number of sweaters and same availability of sweat, I bet that the sweat would be easy 2-3 pec/bottle.

P.S.2: your choice of title is... unfit.

[Gondorf]

Originally Posted by Hanna

Would you buy sweat at 0.1 if someone could justify it?

It isnt really a question of what I would pay though is it, it is a question of what I have to pay because that is the market price. I would pay 1PED for a modfap and full supremacy but I can't because that is not the price that the market had decided for these items. I could hang around PA spamming "Buying sweat for 0.1" but it would be a very lonely existence.

Originally Posted by Kerham

P.S.: the price isn't regulated by MindArk, the droprate and accessibility of it is. If tomorrow MF update would come, with same number of sweaters and same availability of sweat, I bet that the sweat would be easy 2-3 pec/bottle.

Absolutely right! IMHO you have hit the proverbial nail on the head there.
Entropia, i think, is a pretty damn close approximation to a free market, you can buy and sell what you want from whoever you want. Sweat is but one commodity that exists for trade in this market and as such is directly affected by supply and demand. The interaction of these two forces, over time, has deemed that the price should be about 0.6 under current conditions

You can no more influence the price of it than you can influence the price of bread at your local supermarket by argueing with the checkout boy/girl. The sweat price is influenced by how much of it there is (and how easy it is to get it) and how many uses there are for it (and therefore how many buyers).

Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant there

[Kosh]

Like Kerham pointed out, your title is very unapropiate.

You assume that "middle class" players pay for all those crafting hofs, are you aware of the fact that you can spam global chat for 2 hours straight and still lose a few k' peds? Globals really do'nt mean anything. A "middle class" player can and some do profit or break even, just as very high skilled players can lose.

What you say is exactly like all the "raise the sweat price" threads. The same answer applies here: supplly/demand. No control by anyone apart from MA can achieved, in neither direction.
If it should be cheaper it will be cheaper in time.

[redler]

Do u realize sweat is pure profit for MA!!

How?...well ppl sweat it for free then sell it. Its made into ME which is then used, mostly for TP'ing or healing, focus skilling etc. The ME user gets no peds bk for using ME in this way, the money he paid goes straight to MA!! Its win, win all the way for MA this is why it will never be stopped.

Most other online gambling games give u free money to get u started,(infact 1 bingo site i joined gives me £5 free every month), this game makes u work for a very small amount of introduction money(not their money, but other players money) and then gets it all bk, geeee what a perfect business plan, wish i'd thought of it.

[Gondorf]

Originally Posted by redler

Do u realize sweat is pure profit for MA!!

And so what if it is ?

Dont get me wrong, I am not criticising you pesonally, but why is that such a major issue?

I deposit my own money each month when I receive my payslip. That is pure profit for MA too surely ? Ok I may (although it is extremely unlikely) get lucky (and we could go on about that forever ) but really as soon as it is out of my account it goes to MA and becomes part of their turnover figure.

BUT...i dont think it is pure profit for MA at all.
1. The sweat was harvested without any investment from the sweater (we shall assume) and is therefore "given" to the sweater by the game
2. He/she sells it to another av.
3. It is used on that av's next TP jump, and is essentially "given back"

It never really went anywhere, it is just a catalyst for the use of ForceNexus.

[Hanna]

I know the title isnt fitting, but as a title it does the job. It attracted your attention. It seemed more tastefull than putting sex in there

I never suggested sweaters shouldnt be paid, just that they should be paid a lot less.

You're in a paradox here. You joined EU coz it's for free, but you don't want other players to experiment for free

I didnt join EU because it's free, I joined PE because it was a virtual world where you (at the time) was offered a virtual world where you could hunt, craft, or just pursue a a virtual life in a manner which has later been done by second life. I deposited on my third day after learning the basic controls and making a few friends.

What you say is exactly like all the "raise the sweat price" threads. The same answer applies here: supplly/demand. No control by anyone apart from MA can achieved, in neither direction.
If it should be cheaper it will be cheaper in time.

I am very aware that the market system is free,
and in a free market prices regulate themselves. The sweat price has done that to great success, constantly falling since entropia started, despite the efforts of the sweat socs such as sweathogs and whoever. without all the efforts of the united sweaters it would probably have fallen even faster.
There are not many advocates for lowering the sweat prices because it is "politically incorrect".

Of all the shortcomings in EU the price of sweat would affect the common player the least, no one would lose any actual money, unlike if say blau were to become as common as oil, or thin wool as common as animal hides.

you cant claim that the economy is working when a tiny apartment cost 500 ped, and another 500 ped to modestly furnish it. EU has moved away from being a virtual world to a pure hinting and mining gambling game.

1. The sweat was harvested without any investment from the sweater (we shall assume) and is therefore "given" to the sweater by the game

That was my starting point. But it is "given" by the turnover depsoiters supply mindark with. When you have a bottle of sweat you dont have the hard efforts of a poor OJ, you have 0.006 PED of a financial contributor to the game given by someone else. If I were to hypoteticly buy 10k sweat, it would only cost me 60 PED, which is affordable. But if you add it up with all the other players who buys 10k's on a regular basis, it becomes a large lump of money purely used to finance freeloaders who will either withdraw it, or use it on a tt for hutning equipment. If I paid 10 PED for the same amount, I and everyone else would have 50 PED more to use on other expenses and purchases, and allthough I'm sure some of that money would in most cases go to more repairs and ammo, a lot of it would go into the non hunting/mining economy making for a healthier economy in the other fields.

When people argue that everything is working, they forget that not ALL of us play the mining/hunting game :P