Mob AI - Client or Server side?

[aridash]

this morning while hunting CP Dome2 i wonder why it is the mob AI is so dumb. you can be standing 70 meters from a mob with no agro then suddenly one from 120m away will tear across the dome to you, or likewise you tag one and someone the other side has to deal with it, then theres times when a mob will just run around the middle switching its target.

It seems the AI is pretty basic and has some issues, and it occured to me that this is becuase its handled server side so is really simplistic. Think about it, how do you do AI client side with half a dozen users? you could pass AI to one client for each mob and that might explain some odd behaviour (like mobs just stopping their attack and wondering off - the assigned client has gone offline) but that doesnt seem right or practical. Maybe a coder could elborate on possible methods? Does anyone know how/where MMO engines do their AI?

so it also made me think, is CryengineII likely to improve anything in this area? Does CryengineII do any mobs for multiplayer maps and if not does that not rather suggest they will have the same basic server side AI.

Further it occurs to me that the key potential benefits of multicore processors are lost as the client cant balance the AI onto another core. So not alot of point to those quad core rigs then.

[Executor]

Mobs have no AI, it would have been too complex and expensive to implement.

Mobs are "driven" individually by MA or third-party employees.

[Jimmy B]

Yeah it must be server side. Hard to know how intentional the aggro thing is. Seems to me mobs have a vision range and once they've been disturbed they'll attack anything within that vision range.

Originally Posted by Executor

Mobs have no AI, it would have been too complex and expensive to implement.

Mobs are "driven" individually by MA or third-party employees.

LMAO

[rhogenbe]

I would say definitely server driven.

When there is huge lag and i run towards a tagged mob that is comming for me it just passes me to run to my old position. If it was client based it would have stopped at my new location.

Cheers
Siam

[Gondorf]

Originally Posted by Executor

Mobs have no AI, it would have been too complex and expensive to implement.

Mobs are "driven" individually by MA or third-party employees.

That is the funniest thing I have read in ages. Top class

[alh]

definitely server side yes.

Putting them in the clients doesn't really make sense, specially when it is as simple as it is.
client-side would just needlessly complicate things, and increase lag.
More data needing to be send by the clients, plus increased network latency for the mob AI (client ->server -> client is twice as "far" as just "server->client"), plus a bunch of other issues like how to scedule and assign it etc...

As it looks, its server side, and each mob have an "aggression level", that determine their attack range.
I think firing on them simply increases the aggression and thus this attack range, and they go for anything within it.
Possibly higher chance to go to a closer dot, and possibly there is a different factor how "focused" the mob is on its target, and how likely it is to change target.

[endermigne]

Originally Posted by aridash

this morning while hunting CP Dome2 i wonder why it is the mob AI is so dumb. you can be standing 70 meters from a mob with no agro then suddenly one from 120m away will tear across the dome to you, or likewise you tag one and someone the other side has to deal with it, then theres times when a mob will just run around the middle switching its target.

It seems the AI is pretty basic and has some issues, and it occured to me that this is becuase its handled server side so is really simplistic. Think about it, how do you do AI client side with half a dozen users? you could pass AI to one client for each mob and that might explain some odd behaviour (like mobs just stopping their attack and wondering off - the assigned client has gone offline) but that doesnt seem right or practical. Maybe a coder could elborate on possible methods? Does anyone know how/where MMO engines do their AI?

so it also made me think, is CryengineII likely to improve anything in this area? Does CryengineII do any mobs for multiplayer maps and if not does that not rather suggest they will have the same basic server side AI.

Further it occurs to me that the key potential benefits of multicore processors are lost as the client cant balance the AI onto another core. So not alot of point to those quad core rigs then.

From personal experience I can say that it has to be a server side thing which guides the client and then server waits for the response of the client. Or something.

Like some time ago there was this huge lag going on around Fort Argus. I was running SW I think to the low mob area with some Ambus. Basically at one point the Ambu started running at me. I thought "Ooops" and "Damn" and stuff like that. I wasn't in a good condition so basically I started to sweat it and wait to die. Though the Ambu simply wanted to run right through me. I had no idea where it wanted to go as there was nobody around me on the entire radar. I moved out of the way and it ran off the radar.

Soon after that about the same thing happened to a Daiki. Though the Daiki ran a little bit further than I could spot it on the radar but then it came back. I felt like I could have thrown a stick and it could have fetched it. Basically I was just waiting for it and moved a bit out of the way. The mob ran by me again and then seemed to put skidmarks into the ground for like 5 metres or so. After that it finally found its way to me.

Good Daiki. Good Daiki. Sit! Good Daiki!

In other words the server seems to decide that it's attacking time and sends the mob on its way. Then it tries to communicate with the client who got the aggro of the mob and calculates the running path. This is done consistently since you can move anywhere you want. If that's not working you basically get what I experienced that day.

As far as the aggroing is concerned that seems to depend on the mob. E.g. you can aim at specific Daiki in a herd of Daikis and only that Daiki will be aggrod and running at you. If you do the same thing with e.g. Argonauts they switch to team-mode most of the time.

Though if you say that this may also happen to mobs on the other side of the radar I'd call that "strange".

Originally Posted by Executor

Mobs have no AI, it would have been too complex and expensive to implement.

Mobs are "driven" individually by MA or third-party employees.

Then basically you're implying that some MA-folks don't have much I (no "A"I since they aren't artificial)

[Kimmi]

Originally Posted by Executor

Mobs have no AI, it would have been too complex and expensive to implement.

Mobs are "driven" individually by MA or third-party employees.

you meen that is why MA are going to get china in... they need more ppl running mobs :P

[Executor]

Of course they have to drive several dozens or hundreds Mobs, which explains some strange behaviours and lags issues.

Originally Posted by endermigne

Then basically you're implying that some MA-folks don't have much I (no "A"I since they aren't artificial)

You wrotte it, I did not. Sorry for your bad loot next days, man.

[Ironheart]

It must be server side, I think, or AI switching target (when team hunting f.ex. would be very complicated)

Its the target selection part of the AI thats the worst, its very hard to work out what criteria is used to selct the mobs target.

If you're hunting ambus at Nea's and happen to stumble on a team, you'll find a lot of your mobs get aggro'd onto them instead of you after the first shot.

Maybe the criteria is something like - choose avatar with most dmg done since last targetted - this would explain team members having higher aggro rates than solo hunters.

When in a team, it seems to work differently now than it did before, it used to be the mob aggro'd on the avatar with most damage done, which made ping-ponging big mobs easy enough, once you got the timing right. But now, there seems to be a random delay before the mob will change targets, sometimes it will never change target, even though you know your partner has done more damage, anyone else notice this, or is it just me?