After EMT-2600

[Kaiser]

Originally Posted by binfordw

BS?

What is so hard to understand? You calculate eco with the average heal of an L fap. Hell, even using the minimum heal possible with a t-15, it is still more eco than a 2600, even when bought above market at 160%. BS?, I doubt it.


Just because you are assured to get 42 hp's everytime you click a ek2600, it is NOT more eco in any way, shape or form than a Vivo T-15. L may not have a consistent "Maxed" heal, but they do assure you of at LEAST getting the minimum heal- or overall, the average heal.


To anyone comparing faps, you have to keep in mind, your charged PER CLICK. Faster may help to keep you alive, but its also a great way to rack up a hefty decay bill in short fashion.


If all you care about is stayin alive, they by all means avoid L faps. If you want to hunt efficiently, L is the only way to go, unless you buy adj/imp/mod.


* Also, heal/sec isnt the same with 2600 and adj. Adj has 2-3 hp's more per sec- which is a notable difference.

You are completely ignoring the most important parts of the equation. Mob regen expense due to increased kill time, increased armor decay, increased gun decay for extra shots due to longer kill time increased amp decay for extra shots, and most importantly after running some numbers, the fact that average heal is near impossible to workout for yourself until you have burnt one already. You also need to workout the increased expense with markup over time.

As for you claim about notable difference between adj and 2600 that is certainly bullshit. it is a whole 2.6 hp/sec difference and that may as well be no difference at all. The claim that 2.6 hp/sec is some kind of big difference is simply untrue. I used mine for a year and you will end up getting killed more often on big mobs with adjusted than 2600 and I had both maxed at the time. I am speaking from experience here not hearsay. As I said earlier there was absolutely a reason for me selling it. As for the claim of racking up hefty decay, if 15 ped decay difference is a big deal to you, you should chip out and quit RIGHT NOW!! You will never find one person who tells you the reason they make money in this game is because they spent 15 ped less on fap decay. Also, I would like to point out, isn't the entire purpose of a FAP staying alive rofl? Once again if staying alive is not important to you chip out and quit right now because you do not understand how to efficiently play this game. In most situations you will spend FAR less staying alive then running back and rekilling the regenrated HP especially since MA will eventually have this new psycho regen on ALL mobs.

[Kaiser]

Originally Posted by Moonbiter

@Kaiser

Binford has already explained the eco calculation method used to determine eco of L faps. It's exactly same as weapons, when they have damage interval, and average damage is used to determine the real eco. So don't dismiss what you do not understand, or do not wish to understand, clinging to your own beliefs.




Well, depends how you look at it. If you can kill a mob before it reaches you, or you do not have to fap untill it's dead, then you could say so. Even then, you need to heal up to max health to survive next mob.

So you have several options, armor or fap. As it's has been discussed numerous times already (and i have confirmed that to myself with personal experiments) overprotection is a very bad idea, even with recently increased eco of high-end armors. Armor+fap combo always wins against Armor only. And then eco of faps comes into play.

No offense but what the fuck do you know about what I understand? Apparently it is you who does not understand. You think that a simple average heal for economy calculation is all you need to know and that is complete bullshit and you are misleading this guy by over simplifying something that has many more variables that you are to admit. and making stupid comments like assumptions about what I know and what I don't doesn't help your cause.

Did you even take into account that due to slow reload of (L) faps you will almost always get hit while the fap is reloading? The equation you are defending does not even take into account the increased number of fap clicks.

You are also not taking into account that, that average heal is also constantly changing so again THERE IS NO WAY TO BE SURE OF REAL ECON. With any maxed UL fap you always know exactyl what the econ is.

Stop trying ot defend an invalid point

[binfordw]

My wife was saving over 80 peds a day in fap decay by using L.


That buys me a nice supper each day.


I like supper, therefore, I like L faps.


Kaiser if you get hungry let me know, I can share my fries I guess

[Moonbiter]

Originally Posted by Kaiser

No offense but what the fuck do you know about what I understand? Apparently it is you who does not understand. You think that a simple average heal for economy calculation is all you need to know and that is complete bullshit and you are misleading this guy by over simplifying something that has many more variables that you are to admit. and making stupid comments like assumptions about what I know and what I don't doesn't help your cause.

Did you even take into account that due to slow reload of (L) faps you will almost always get hit while the fap is reloading? The equation you are defending does not even take into account the increased number of fap clicks.

You are also not taking into account that, that average heal is also constantly changing so again THERE IS NO WAY TO BE SURE OF REAL ECON. With any maxed UL fap you always know exactyl what the econ is.

Stop trying ot defend an invalid point

Ok, what i talk about, i know from my own experience, calculations and observations, so it's not pure thoeretical speculation. However every good theory has to be in accordance with fundamental theoretical priciples, or it's quite doubtful.

Ok, you don't belief that average heal/pec is the right way to calculate eco. Fine. Let's take MINIMAL heal then, and see what we get. I hope even you would agree, and you always get at least minimal heal. (Using t20 as an example)

Minimal heal=42.90 hp
Decay per click= 5.001 pec
Heal/pec: 42.9/5.001=8.57 heal/pec

So, as you can see from the figures above, even doing minimal heals all the time, it's still one hell of a more eco than crafted unlimited faps.

I expect your next argument to be "But L faps have a markup!!". Ok, let's check that, still using the minimal heal.

markup=160%
decay with markup= 5.001*1.6=8.0016
Heal/pec= 42.9/8.0016=5.36

So, even using minimal decay all the time, T20 WITH markup is still more eco than any crafted fap. I hope i have proved now already that what i was saying is true? Since, real eco is much more higher than presented here, due to average heal being higher than one based on minimal heal.

About getting hit more often. It's false again. With high enough evader level you don't get hit more often. In fact, you can shoot much longer during heals with L fap. For example, i wait when i get damaged enough (upto 60+hp) with t20, to heal up myself. 2 heals is enough to restore me to full health, when it would take 3 with ek-2600. Precious time saved, and more chance to avoid faplag when clicking less.

Anyway, no one is trying to convince you to use L fap. By all means, use your dear ek-2600 and generate more loot for us, that is always welcome. I just had to present facts, over usual talks.

[LeeLoo Faith]

What I do is a combo of two faps, I have Ek2600 as speed fap for In-Combat healing and one eco Fap T15(L) for After-Combat healing. That works pretty well for me.

[AJack10600]

Well... I think EK2600 is your best choice for a long time unless you want to spend a lot of ped... I have also been tinking of alternatives or upgrades but there are none really ...

[JaKst3r]

I have used my EK2600 for over a year...

I have reasonable low/mid evade (unlocked avoidance) & paramedic (unlocked treatment).. both at lvl 25

I have recently removed the ek2600 from shortcut as i can now use the SK50 at 18/20 im in sib for UR125... (and a t15 for more eco top up heal)

I find the SK50 at this speed is better for eco and heal (the sort i might need) than the ek2600. I generally do NOT get hit whilst waiting for it to reload - unless im tanking something i probably shouldnt be anyway.

oO my 2 pecs.


Edit: just reread moonbiters thread above.... im in complete agreement. I would add however that accidently clicking on the UR125 heal at 11/20 mid scrap is a bad idea lol

[Iron Monkey]

Moonbiter said :with t20, to heal up myself. 2 heals is enough to restore me to full health, when it would take 3 with ek-2600. Precious time saved, and more chance to avoid faplag when clicking less.


Lets have a look at this statement:

If you say you heal 2 times with t20 to get to full health that is at best 2*57,1=114,2 health added. Two heals with the t20 takes 6 sec.

Not to take sides it the battle between t20 and EK2600 but:

If you say you need to heal 3 times with the EK2600 that is at best 2*42=126 health added. Three heals with the EK2600 takes 6,7 sec. adjusting this for the fact that you get more health from the EK2600 with 3 heals then you get from the t20 with two heals. the EK2600 takes (114,2/126)*6,7=6 sec. From this point of view its the same :-)

One more factor has to be calculated in... what is your health and how low do you dare to get your health in a battle.... If you use the t20 you have to take a bigger risk as in order to get the max eco from your fap you have to be willing to at least get 57,1 damage or more before fapping with the EK2600 you only have to get 42 damage before you fap. This brings us to the fact that your health level also has to be taken in to the calculation. Seen from my point of view the t20 gets better with higher health level and surely there is a link between high health and high skills.

Just to say that the way you use your fap also has a big influence on the eco of it. With the t20 it is harder to control if you get the max out of it as the health pr. heal is higher. This becomes less and less important with higher health level.

Both t20 and EK2600 are very good combat faps, but as with everything in EU you have to look at the hole picture and find out what suits you and your type of gameplay.

[LeeLoo Faith]

nice calculation and some really good points.

But: who says you always have to heal till FULL health?
I heal when I lost ~40-50 Points but just ONCE, doesnt need to get to 100%

Originally Posted by Iron Monkey

If you say you heal 2 times with t20 to get to full health that is at best 2*57,1=114,2 health added. Two heals with the t20 takes 6 sec.

If you say you need to heal 3 times with the EK2600 that is at best 2*42=126 health added. Three heals with the EK2600 takes 6,7 sec.

[Iron Monkey]

Originally Posted by LeeLoo Faith

nice calculation and some really good points.

But: who says you always have to heal till FULL health?
I heal when I lost ~40-50 Points but just ONCE, doesnt need to get to 100%

No one said that as I pointed out the way you manage your health level is up to you but it will have an effect on what fap works best for you. Eco is not everything, the way you play is

P.S. I like your avatar picture, is that an all Foul set I am also always dressed in all Foul lol.