Question: About the A and E amps

[Immortal]

Originally Posted by aridash

thats some wierd logic you got there. 4.6 is greater dmg/pec than 3.8. that is a fact, not an assumption.

Yes but you assume that you get the same amount of loot for less ped spent.
That's the eco argument. I feel it is in the same area as fap efficiency. Those with highly eco faps don't get nearly as many skills as those using less eco faps do for the same amount of healing. Why should it change when considering loot return?

I choose less eco faps for faster skills

Well the math is there. The burden of proof is on the opinion with absolutely no rational or logical basis, i'd say.
I personally have no vested interest in proving it to anyone; let he who has ears to hear, hear.

Of course any test that shows how a commonly available amp breaks even on hunt just as a high eco amp would never be published by someone who owns a high eco amp. It would damage the market value if people realised the true value of so-called eco amps. And if they are as valuable as people think in terms of hunting return, then the hunter need ask themselves, why would anyone sell them if they are so valuable.

[Az Bloodz]

Well you get more skills spending more PEDs. That's been tested. No matter if you do some fapping or some hunting you will get more skills. Don't see why you get additional loot as well (since you get additional skills anyways).
Btw: you see a lot of good/eco weapons getting sold. Why would anyone sell them if they are so valuable?

[aridash]

Originally Posted by Immortal

Yes but you assume that you get the same amount of loot for less ped spent.
That's the eco argument.

please highlight were i assume or even suggest that. i make no such assertion. the eco argument has nothing to do with loot returns (at least for me, some may have that opinon, which i beleive to be incorrect), it only concerns costs.

Originally Posted by Immortal

... Those with highly eco faps don't get nearly as many skills as those using less eco faps do for the same amount of healing. Why should it change when considering loot return?

I choose less eco faps for faster skills

so now you twist the point to skills, which is a completly seperate issue. and while its wildly held that higher eco provide lower sklls, have you actually tested? i recall recently reading someone reckons they get better skills with adjfap than ULxxx. why does skills return have any thing to do with loot return? it may do, but again you dont offer any evidence yet present it as fact.

[Joat]

Originally Posted by aridash

so is it the lower eco that triggers the "better quality loots" or the higher decay? if the latter, it follows that BLP users would get better quality loot. if the former it would suggest the most uneconomical/high dmg setup would provide best overall gains due to better quality loots. it would also imply using non-SIB or unmaxed SIB would return better quality loot. Economy becomes meaningless, the unskilled hunter with Vat100me + Angst would get better loot than the 8HA ImpMKII hunter.

It needs to be tested really to be sure (i wouldnt dismiss it out of hand), but it certainly doesnt make any sence.

It's like everything else, the comb of the avatars stats, weapon+attachments,
what mob and so on. It's not one single part IMO. But you should remember
what comb I compare between, mk5+eamp13 and mk5+a203, both do same
maxdmg, and has same ammobrun, the difference is the decay and type of dmg.
But loot isn't linear to what we spend. There are many factors involved,
the combined values for different combs are most interesting IMO.
This can only be found by testing stuff, and not only looking at charts.

Originally Posted by Doer

Considering the likely audience of this thread, i must say that "better extractors" aren't going to be useful for the noob who just hunted snables for a day and has 100 PEDs less tt because of using an E-amp. As much as i benefit from everyone who amps with E-amps, i really can't help but say that for a beginner hunting beginner mobs, the only reason to consider using an E-amp (besides the lowest model, which is actually eco) is that they have unlimited PEDs and limited time. Even in that case, i'd just tell them to buy a MM and put an A204 on it and go hogg wild.

If nothing else, i'm predictable.

This thread was about eamps in general I belive, and that
involves everything from newbs to ubers.
So yes, it might be terrible for newbs, while it might be
excellent for some ubers.
As I said before, those that don't see difference in skillgain and loot, might
not be skilled enough for the equipment.

Originally Posted by Doer

Well the math is there. The burden of proof is on the opinion with absolutely no rational or logical basis, i'd say.

I personally have no vested interest in proving it to anyone; let he who has ears to hear, hear.

Originally Posted by aridash

thats some wierd logic you got there. 4.6 is greater dmg/pec than 3.8. that is a fact, not an assumption.

The numbers are there, and the math is there, but are the
facts there? IMO, no. If I had gone purely after charts
my best comb for tantillions had been ditched from start.
I really doubt that numbers we can see from stats are the
whole thruth, since I've seen a different outcome in ROI and progress,
that isn't linear to eco, when testing different combs of equipment.

[CozMoDan]

Originally Posted by A-Bomb

This suggests you plan on selling your amp the the TT when you are done with it. And thats a pretty bad idea , ill pay tt+10.

I didn't mean to suggest that I would sell the e-amp. I was asking how long it would take to get the difference between the cost of the two amps. One of the peeps suggested about 9 weeks with 10 300 ped hunts per week. I think I do more than that so I should get the diff back faster. However, I am still not convenced that I want to give up the extra dps for eco. Also I am not sure what the A-20X amps cost because I have not seen any for sale yet. The highest one I see listed is A-204 and the dmg is 20 and the suggested cost is tt +11000(Little sticker shock on that one). That is still 3 dmg less than the e15 and at about 4 and half times the cost for the 9 week return now turn into 40 weeks. I guess it will just be a matter of choice as we all have our specs and I don't think anyone is going to change their mind.

[Omnedon]

About the only thing that can be put up as fact is that the E-amp on my gun is better for me than the A-amp on someone else's gun. I can make E-amps, *IF* I see an A-amp within my price range I'll grab it.

[Skippie]

Originally Posted by CozMoDan

The highest one I see listed is A-204 and the dmg is 20 and the suggested cost is tt +11000(Little sticker shock on that one).

actually the current offer on one being publicly traded is 21k or so. if you see one for +11k, plz buy it immediately.

look here's the point, if you feel like it is a good idea to take down mobs at higher damage per second with your eamp, fine, go ahead and hunt that way. part of the "fun" in eu is learning, often from your own mistakes, to become a better player over time. i wish i knew more about eco in my early days. i wish i knew more about chipping. and i wish i listened more to ppl here at ef that had such valid advice to help me early on.

i didn't. made my own mistakes. still got where i got. here's hoping you might also.

i use eamp 15s for one purpose, in dam per sec affected events. i have considered hunting with them and may in the distant future, when my gun is maxed. ppl with maxed foerippers and what not seem to do just fine when they use the less eco and larger eamp of blp the evil amp over the highly eco dante, when they have maxed skills.

i hunt with another MM owner with kill strike rolling. i'm still 12 levels short of that unlock. the difference in loot between what he gets and what i get is astounding, when we both spend the same per shot. i could amp eamp 15 to keep up with him on damage, but why, so i could spend more money then him to get the same amount of loot?

as much as 129 dam per sec is interesting looking on paper, i know for a fact that using the a106 atm rather than the eamp 15 is the difference between profiting and not profiting, and that rather than make that decision, pushing my minimum damage is the best thing that i can do to get better.

being successful in any profession in eu is often about investment. might not like that but honestly it's a reality. buying an eco gun and eco amp is investment. skilling to or buying the skills to use them is same. buying an eamp15 is not an investment, but you seem to have your mind made up on using them, so go ahead. we all make our way in eu the best way we can with our resources we have to get there. good luck to you on finding your way.

[A-Bomb]

Originally Posted by CozMoDan

I didn't mean to suggest that I would sell the e-amp. I was asking how long it would take to get the difference between the cost of the two amps. One of the peeps suggested about 9 weeks with 10 300 ped hunts per week. I think I do more than that so I should get the diff back faster. However, I am still not convenced that I want to give up the extra dps for eco. Also I am not sure what the A-20X amps cost because I have not seen any for sale yet. The highest one I see listed is A-204 and the dmg is 20 and the suggested cost is tt +11000(Little sticker shock on that one). That is still 3 dmg less than the e15 and at about 4 and half times the cost for the 9 week return now turn into 40 weeks. I guess it will just be a matter of choice as we all have our specs and I don't think anyone is going to change their mind.

No, you say "i need to use the amp this many times to make it worth it", and no you dont. You buy the amp for +2500 today for instance, and use it for a year and you sell it for +2500 peds to someone else. So the exact amount of time you needed to use it, to get the money back, was 0.0 seconds. Just because you buy something for 2000, or even 20000 peds, doesnt mean it will lose its value. Normaly itll maintain it, and using has no cost but its decay.

[Joat]

I missed to mention one thing earlier. The discussion about e-amp vs a-amp
is a bit dull, since people have different goals.
My goals, and prio1, are to raise skills as fast and with as much value per
gain, that I can afford to do with equipment I have.
I'm very close to a total of 255k, all skilled up 100% manually. I have allowed
myself to keep going sometimes no matter how good or bad loot are. This way
I have noticed stuff some might have missed.

So I can give some info about 4 days atroxhunting I did some months ago.
Weapon used were mk5 and amps were e-amp13 and a203.
My progress in rifle, lwt and some of the ordinary skills, were lower with
a203, then with eamp13. Interesting thing is, skills that are a bit harder
to raise, like some triggered, raised very good with e-amps.
Loot were worse in general with eamp, in tt-value, but items were way better.
But my loss in one run with eamp, were still lower than total loss of 3 runs
with a203. I needed 3 runs with a203 to get same progress as one run with
the eamp13. This isn't a one-time experience, I've seen this over and over
again, when I have used eamp13 instead a203.
If my goal and prio1 had been eco instead, I had probably not used any of
the equipment I use(-d).

When I can afford it, I skill with mob and equipment that gives me a very
good progress, I raised for example my HP 1 lvl in 3 days. I have 212 now.
But it cost. A lot too sometimes. And since I almost always skill up both
material and equipment I loot, I lose in the long run.
Question is thou', how much had it cost me if I had used a very eco
L-weapon instead? No one can say I guess, but one thing is for sure, I save
a lot of time doing it...

So, a final thought. It's obvious that people have very different experience
with eamps, but to find out what really works for each and everyone, that
can only be done out on the field.
And if eco is the only reason when playing, eamps are probably not the best.

[Staffas]

Just to spice this discusion up alittle.

How bad/good are the limited amps compare to the A/E series?

I am using the E15 at the moment just because of that I am doing a gambling with soloing ambulimax and needs all dmg/sec that i can get, but the decay is horrible (110ped for a 300ped ammo hunt, A103 is about 35ped right?).
I am still skilling and does not mind spending the extra peds for the skills since I want to get up to a sufficient lvl, but then again, peds are peds and I wouldnt mind saving a few of them again later on when I am off the ambus.

So back to my original question, how are the (L) amps for a decent eco but still with a nice dmg/sec.

I know that I can get the figures from entropedia, but since there is such a nice debate already going on I would like to hear your input on theese amps too.