Guide: Limited Weapons

[Jimmy B]

Originally Posted by Kolobok

Have you looked at this page:

http://entropiatools.com/avgdmgpec.php

Can save some time before trying to Excel things

The point was to show people how they can calculate (quite easily) such things themselves. As, with new weapons coming out all the time, information sites will not always have the details you need. The site you link to doesn't yet have Breer M3a for instance.

Originally Posted by Spawn

Too bad you didn't calc on the ACTUAL damage you do, which is average damage. (because you never shoot maximum damage all the time)

the formula for average dmg/s is like this:

(attacks per min/min)* (mindmg+maxdmg:2)

Obviously. The reason I use max damage is because that is what is traditionally used. Since I'm considering limited weapons here, we should have 50% min damage on each weapon so it doesn't make much difference for comparison purposes.

I wasn't really aiming to compare with non-SIB guns. It just needs too many assumptions such as how HA affects things and how sights & scopes affect things. I haven't seen any conclusive answers to these things so I've refrained from making guesses.

I'm more interested in dmg/pec than dmg/sec anyway. And imo for non-ubers there aren't any non-SIB weapons that compare to a wisely chosen SIB weapon, despite the markup.

[Kolobok]

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

The point was to show people how they can calculate (quite easily) such things themselves. As, with new weapons coming out all the time, information sites will not always have the details you need. The site you link to doesn't yet have Breer M3a for instance.

Sure. Your guide is already very useful. My suggestion for improving it is to include some links to already existing tools, add calculations for average dmg/pec and mention some aspects that are not so obvious and need more testing.

Even for maxed out weapons, misses and critical hits are to be taken taken into account. This number - 8% of misses for a maxed out weapon - probably was measured in some older VU and never questioned since then. I don't know what is the % for critical hits. It is not clear whether the distribution of damage made by individual shots is uniform and doesn't depend on skills, like it does for FAP.

[Jimmy B]

Originally Posted by Kolobok

Sure. Your guide is already very useful. My suggestion for improving it is to include some links to already existing tools, add calculations for average dmg/pec and mention some aspects that are not so obvious and need more testing.

Even for maxed out weapons, misses and critical hits are to be taken taken into account. This number - 8% of misses for a maxed out weapon - probably was measured in some older VU and never questioned since then. I don't know what is the % for critical hits. It is not clear whether the distribution of damage made by individual shots is uniform and doesn't depend on skills, like it does for FAP.

Thanks man, I didn't mean to come over as aggressive - had just been reading that *other thread* from last night! Thanks for the link, as you point out there's some very useful tools out there. Some of them I haven't used much so I'll check them out and add them to the first post sometime.

Again, I left out misses and crits as for maxed out weapons it just scales them all down by the same %. So for comparison purposes between two maxed out weapons its not so important.

But certainly for comparing SIB and non-SIB its needed. That wasn't my original intention but its worth mentioning so I'll add a section into the first post sometime!

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Kolobok

It is not clear whether the distribution of damage made by individual shots is uniform and doesn't depend on skills, like it does for FAP.

That part has been confirmed several times. eg here

Jimmy, it might be good to point out that these numbers only hold when a player has maxed out the SIB in question; i don't think the very beginning players this may be most useful to will necessarily know that; so, a bit on upgrade strategy perhaps. If you didm and i missed it, i apologize,

[jdegre]

Originally Posted by dee

remember an item is worth its market value. If you loot a korss 400, yes you avoid the markup, but the value is still there if the item was to be sold instead of used. and fwiw, i hunt for it myself anyway just to save paying the markup.to someone else. So basically to sum it up you are still losing the market value of the item (~200% in case of the korss400) as you use it, whether you loot it or buy it.

I think that this is a very good point. I've seen a lot of people saying "this weapon has great economy as long as I can loot it". I cannot say they're wrong, but I prefer to see it in a different way:

Remember that if you loot a 100 ped korss 400, what you have actually looted is a 200 ped worth of weapon. If you go hunting and you burn the whole gun, you've burned 200 ped worth of gun.

If you decide to sell the gun, you get 100 extra ped. If you hunt with it, you'd better take into account those 100 extra ped in you calculations to see if you've had a loss/profit, otherwise you're fooling yourself. In economics, this concept is known as "cost of opportunity", ie., the virtual cost you've paid for not having done something; in this case, for not having sold the gun.

The bottom line: as long as you pay current market price for an L weapon (the price you could get if you sell it), it does not matter if you loot it or if you buy it, economy-wise

Cheers,
/jdegre.

[Darkaner]

Originally Posted by jdegre

I think that this is a very good point. I've seen a lot of people saying "this weapon has great economy as long as I can loot it". I cannot say they're wrong, but I prefer to see it in a different way:

Remember that if you loot a 100 ped korss 400, what you have actually looted is a 200 ped worth of weapon. If you go hunting and you burn the whole gun, you've burned 200 ped worth of gun.

If you decide to sell the gun, you get 100 extra ped. If you hunt with it, you'd better take into account those 100 extra ped in you calculations to see if you've had a loss/profit, otherwise you're fooling yourself. In economics, this concept is known as "cost of opportunity", ie., the virtual cost you've paid for not having done something; in this case, for not having sold the gun.

The bottom line: as long as you pay current market price for an L weapon (the price you could get if you sell it), it does not matter if you loot it or if you buy it, economy-wise

Cheers,
/jdegre.

Agree, good post.

[onoff]

Originally Posted by Darkaner

Agree, good post.

yup
i agree

[Jimmy B]

I agree with the last four posts

I will add some more stuff to the guide, particularly the good points people have brought up, in a few days. Bit busy atm!

[In Love With]

Originally Posted by jdegre

I think that this is a very good point. I've seen a lot of people saying "this weapon has great economy as long as I can loot it". I cannot say they're wrong, but I prefer to see it in a different way:

Remember that if you loot a 100 ped korss 400, what you have actually looted is a 200 ped worth of weapon. If you go hunting and you burn the whole gun, you've burned 200 ped worth of gun.

If you decide to sell the gun, you get 100 extra ped. If you hunt with it, you'd better take into account those 100 extra ped in you calculations to see if you've had a loss/profit, otherwise you're fooling yourself. In economics, this concept is known as "cost of opportunity", ie., the virtual cost you've paid for not having done something; in this case, for not having sold the gun.

The bottom line: as long as you pay current market price for an L weapon (the price you could get if you sell it), it does not matter if you loot it or if you buy it, economy-wise

Cheers,
/jdegre.

agree, but it is a psychological thing ... Example If I loot an adjusted fap I would most likely keep it, but I would never buy one. I am sure that many people see that the same way so even though your argument if fully valid I'd still shoot the Korss as I love this weapon (but am too tight to buy one from the auction all the time

ILW

[Photon]

Just a point about the M3a ... I'm pretty sure that it's specifically designed to be used with the E-amp 12. There's also a new looted (L) laser amp that does 10 dmg ... that could be used too.

The E-amp 12 does 10 damage and you can maximize your dmg/sec to 16.5 by using this. The eco is slightly less afaik ... but still over the 4 dmg/pec mark.