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  1. #61
    Guardian Magyar's Avatar
    May 14 2011
    Aberdeen, WA
    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    Half the appeal of Entropia Universe is the RCE + Items side of things. Back in 2005, that was what brought 90% if not more of the new people into EU... money for items and land.
    I completely agree with this. However I think EU has failed to adapt to the global economic changes, changes in player mentality since 2005 across the MMORPG spectrum, and changes within EU itself.

    The EU economy has stagnated, both because of the global slowdown and the lack of attainability of higher end goods for the less-than-insanely-wealthy-or-financially-irresponsible player. EU in large part fails to accept that these changes internally have resulted in a perception shift from EU as a place of promise into a place of pillaging, as seen from the outside. Couple a perception of a cash hungry game and playerbase with a cash poor economy, and you have problems for the product. This needs to be recognized and dealt with for the game to grow.

    Dealing with this, I think, can be done through the mission system. I think some of the proposals on this thread recognize this, while others remain blind to reality.

    The reality is that there are alot of free to play games out there that offer much more entertainment for every dollar spent than EU does. If anyone doubts this a visit to's EU forum should set them straight.

    Right now players are measuring games in terms of value. Not necessarily long term economic value. Im talking about entertainment value. People dont want to think about how poorly their investments are doing in a game when they have to think about that in real life.

    Since the real life situation isnt changing anytime soon, if EU wants to grow, its appeals to new players must change to fit the times. I personally have passed on opportunities to own a mothership, unlimited spacecraft, and opportunities to greatly improve my gear (opportunities I otherwise would have gladly been a part of) because I question whether or not the development team and playerbase here are capable of understanding this and adapting their business model to suit.
    Welcoming new and advanced players!
    Nymphtown Castle
    Aesthetic Arts for your Entropian and Real World home.

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  3. #62
    Guardian SpikeBlack's Avatar
    May 13 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    I think skills for missions is cool, but, skills + items (carefully worked out) would not only benefit the already participating masses, but also be attractive for new recruits.
    mentors (when we had them) got items as a result of their desciples graduating a profession, now this may not have involved them actually spending any ped at all but they still got them. So at the end of mission it would encourage people to do them, especially if they were UL.

    Personally I've avoided doing any of the missions in EU, simply because if I wanted to play a game involving missions I'd play something like Fallout 3 or Assassins Creed.

    Plus doing the missions to get skill points now means I can't get them when / if I get to a higher level when they'd be far more valuable.

    And grinding style missions is my pet hate in games.

    btw I found this post on mmorpg quite interesting


    World Consentual PvP. World of Warcraft had some of this at one time. Not just open-world arenas, but zones that were designed specifically for a lot of pvp conflict. Eventually it was removed not because Blizzard didn't like it, but because the players didn't like it. Players by and large stopped going to those zones to have the epic battles. Lower level players avoided those zones as much as humanly possible. If you had to quest there, the goal was to get in and out as fast as you could. I know there are a lot of gamers who want this and I am certainly not against it - but the reality has been that most games that focus on it fail and the most successful game in North America had a smattering of it and eventually found it to be a hinderance to their players' enjoyment and removed it.
    Last edited by SpikeBlack; 07-21-2011 at 00:41.

  4. #63
    Old Alpha
    Nov 08 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Kim|MindArk View Post
    Hey there

    I'm looking for players pov feedback on the mission system and the design of missions. What do/don't you like, what would you like to see added?

    Looking forward to hear from you!
    We have the beginnings of companies/factions in game with Omegaton/Genesis Star, etc. Take that and go further, much further.

    Give every mission broker an actual story, and tie it all together in various ways... bring the 'role playing' back in to the game...

    Here's a blog entry I did a little while back that somewhat relates to that...

    Answer each of these questions for each and every 'character' in the story, including both the mission brokers and those 'offstage' in the backstory as secondary characters, etc. Put at least 3 paragraphs in at least 5 of the questions as an answer. Come up with at least 10-20 more questions that you can answer about each character as you answer these sort of questions... Write it all down or type it out, etc. Get it down on paper, then start bouncing the ideas around with other members of your creative team... give the game more 'character' and I think you'll find many more folks entering the game.... Leave it boring dull and as endless grinding and expect the opposite...

    How old?
    Origin in Feeling toward others, society, organizations of note?

    What is your concept of beauty?

    What is your concept of fear?

    Has your character encounters either ????

    is characters goals, fears, hopes, aspirations?










    Occupation? (or former occupation?)

    Feelings towards… ?

    physical = height? weight? shape? form, physique? eye color? hair color? skin color?


    Love(s)? Lovers? Sexuality? Sexual?

    Dark Side?




    Strength of will?


    Intellect/physique meets background?


    Reasons? (for being? for being in a certain place, etc.)?





    Former Lives?


    Birthday sign?

    Name?.. and true name?



    When and how did important dreams meet your life?

    Name enemies you have met, not met?


    True Form (and it’s looks?) (physically and spiritually, etc.)

    Who do you serve – people, self, country, a master, a religion, a gut feeling, a dream, a wife, a husband, kid, etc.?

    Ever been to battle?

    Ever been to a library?

    Ever killed someone?

    Ever graduate – from where?

    Work experience?


    What do you value (as your riches, goals, etc.)?

    Motives – ulterior, true, false?

    Beliefs – myths, truths, half knowledges, lies, afterlife(s)?

    Angered by _________?

    Turned on by ________?


    Origins unknown – history unknown?

    Mentally deformed?




    Anal accountant type?


    How do you have fun?

    Hangouts? With who?

    Make a living by ___________?

    Past Life ideas? — Reborn, death, life? Immortality?

    Immortality as a goal?


    Practice?, etc. etc.

    (I could go on forever with more questions)…

    Build character. Characters that have character are far better then those with no character.
    Once you have 'characters that have character' creating the plots, subplots, relationships and hatreds between characters, and what real 'drama' is all about comes a heck of a lot more naturally than a trying to force a story in to a game that you have not put any effort in to on the literature/dramatic side of things.

    Buy some 'real' role playing games, and have your team actually participate in those in a weekly session or something... Get them in to the dramatic pen and paper rpg mode that many of the original folks involved with eu had, and I think it might get you out of the creative funk and artistic blocks keeping this game from becoming something truly amazing in story/plot/etc.
    Last edited by mastermesh; 07-21-2011 at 01:53.

  5. #64
    Guardian Magyar's Avatar
    May 14 2011
    Aberdeen, WA
    Quote Originally Posted by mastermesh View Post
    .. some stuff ..
    I remember those questions from an AD&D supplement I picked up in 1993 or thereabouts! I used to use those to develop my characters, and require others to use them when developing their characters within my games. Then I could give out less-than-arbitrary rewards for roleplaying, which struck me as more fair than the more whimsical approaches otherwise available.

    You know, Mastermesh. I think you can be a douche. A big douche. But sometimes I also like what you post. You've been on a generally good run lately, and that's cool. I want you to know that. +rep for that particular post. (you must spread some more blah blah... wtf? I dont remember +repping you!)
    Welcoming new and advanced players!
    Nymphtown Castle
    Aesthetic Arts for your Entropian and Real World home.

  6. #65
    Dec 28 2010
    You can add "The epic mission" 500k kills off 1 mob. You can pick from 5 off the most hunted once... that woud be some moster mission to finish

  7. #66
    Jun 18 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by MilkeN View Post
    You can add "The epic mission" 500k kills off 1 mob. You can pick from 5 off the most hunted once... that woud be some moster mission to finish
    if 1 of the mobs is feff then we both know you would finish it :P

  8. #67
    Young Jan Universe's Avatar
    Feb 09 2011
    i don't know if it was mentioned, but i would like to see that the mission broker is on the tracker function, now after each mission done, i have to find him back on the forum.

  9. #68
    Mature Wed's Avatar
    Nov 02 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Universe View Post
    i don't know if it was mentioned, but i would like to see that the mission broker is on the tracker function, now after each mission done, i have to find him back on the forum.
    I have a printed list of all the brokers and locations, helps alot

  10. #69
    Young Jan Universe's Avatar
    Feb 09 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Wed View Post
    I have a printed list of all the brokers and locations, helps alot
    well i don't wanna have EU wallpaper allover my place

  11. #70
    Nov 01 2010
    I believe now is a very important time to evaluate the direction Missions and Achievements are headed, in terms of the impact they have on Entropia's degree of game play linearity. I began playing Entropia during the VU 9 era, and remember the inscription on the statue at Port Atlantis, stating:


    Such an expression seems to indicate that MindArk envisioned a relatively nonlinear atmosphere for Entropia. That is to say, Entropia was developed to be quite an open-ended universe (the term "sandbox" is sometimes used, but I will avoid doing so in order to separate this topic from the discussion of defining what constitutes a sandbox game). This open-ended universe philosophy, from my observation, was very clearly reflected by many of MindArk's design decisions. The large scale example is that Entropia does not force its participants to select a limited number of Profession(s) per avatar, as many other MMOPRGs do, but the philosophy is reflected by lesser design decisions as well. Lists within windows and menus (such as Teleporters on the map window, Professions in the Professions menu, etc.) are organized alphabetically or otherwise logically, as opposed to having an organization for each individual colonist that depends upon the order he or she unlocked the content. This layout allows the windows and menus in Entropia to retain a neat and professional appearance as content is unlocked, without requiring colonists to unlock it in a particular order (i.e. collecting the Teleporters in alphabetical order). The easiest way to formally summarize the overall effect of these design decisions is to say that no two participants' accounts could become irreversibly different from each other, except where implementing such a thing is impossible for any game (i.e. avatar names and gender cannot be changed after account creation in any reasonable game). Respecting this model when making design decisions allows Entropia to remain open-ended, and ensures all parts of the virtual world are at our fingertips within our reach.

    Recently, this open-ended universe philosophy has been challenged, to a minor degree yet in a significant way. Mission and Achievement systems have been introduced into Entropia, allowing colonists to track their past accomplishments in the game. These systems were well designed, for the most part. The only apparent oversight was that a small number of these Missions and Achievements were implemented in such a way that it is possible to permanently miss the opportunity to complete them. Some examples include all Missions on the Calypso Gateway, select Missions from the 2010 Harbinger event, the Mission used to track Merry Mayhem 2010, and Achievements related to Operation Hammerhead and the Mad Prophet Mission. I have also heard rumors of a Mission exclusively for FPC Community Advisers, a test Mission(s) that some folks received before the first five Swamp Camp Missions were introduced, Missions in the Genesis starting area, a Mission available for a short time on Planet Arkadia when it was first launched, and missions on ROCKtropia that were closed as a part of a bug fix(I have no idea whether any of these rumors are true). There are also at least two Missions whose completions are mutually exclusive with each other. Recently, a group of Next Island's Missions were completely removed from Entropia.

    As I mentioned, very few Missions and even fewer Achievements are problematic in their current state. This is why it is important to consider the issue soon; producing a solution is still a simple matter. As time moves forward, Entropia Universe is becoming less and less synonymous with Planet Calypso, and the rate of this change is sure to increase as new planets are introduced, and as ROCKtropia, Next Island, and Planet Arkadia are further developed. Since planet partners design their own Missions and Achievements, there is no guarantee that they will handle matters in a manner that is consistent with MindArk's vision for Entropia. This is to be expected, and presumably MindArk has structured the relationship between the platform provider and planet partners accordingly. What we need now is a bit of structure for the Mission and Achievement systems.

    There are a few options. Of course, doing nothing is always possible, but it seems to me (an uninformed Joe Shmoe) that a solution could be implemented at a very low cost, and that doing so would be worthwhile (preserving a major component of the "feel" of Entropia).

    At the other end of the extremity spectrum, MindArk could delete all records of the few stray Missions and Achievements that currently exist, and communicate to planet partners some guidelines for how to develop Missions and Achievements that fit within the feel of Entropia that participants have grown accustomed to as a result of the open-ended universe philosophy. This solution would certainly fix the matter at hand quite well. However, it may initially be a bit more invasive to planet partner content than necessary. After all, MindArk has stated that "each planet can use what MindArk develops differently to suit the specific planet and its environments the best." It may be desirable to seek a solution that empowers planet partners to create content in a more structured way, rather than merely imposing limits to Mission and Achievement structure via contracts or documents.

    Let us take a look at the Mission and Achievement systems separately for a moment. Perhaps a simple and fitting solution for the Mission system could include a control for planet partners to use to categorize Missions as either temporary or permanent (alternatively, MindArk could choose to retain the power to categorize Missions; doing so may especially make sense if MindArk already reviews the content of Missions before planet partners release them). Permanent Missions (which would classify almost all currently implemented Missions; kill 10K mobs, visit Swamp Camp, etc.) that a colonist finishes are transferred from his or her Active Quest/Mission Log to his or her Completed Quest/Mission Log (just as is currently the case with all Missions), while temporary Missions (which would classify limited-time Missions, Missions requiring access to potentially inaccessible areas, sets of mutually exclusive Missions, etc.) are simply removed from his or her Active Quest/Mission Log. Temporary Missions would still offer colonists item(s) and/or skill(s) as reward for completion, but no record of which colonists completed such a Mission would be kept. The duration status of an active Mission would be displayed in a colonist's Active Quest/Mission Log (perhaps temporary Missions could be highlighted in a different color). This setup would severely reduce the aforementioned limits to Mission structure. Planet partners would be free to develop content for Missions as they currently do. The only necessary consideration would be that temporary Missions could not serve as prerequisites to permanent Missions, as no record of their completion would be kept (which may not be a smart design decision anyhow, in terms of allowing Entropia to remain open-ended). Temporary Missions could, in fact, serve as prerequisites to other temporary Missions, if the record of a prerequisite temporary Mission was not deleted immediately after a colonist completed the Mission, but at some later point in time (perhaps a "Temporary Quest/Mission" section could be added to the Completed Quest/Mission Log, allowing colonists to track i.e. their Mission progress on the Calypso Gateway; the temporary section and all missions within it would be removed from the Quest/Mission Log when the colonist leaves the Gateway, when the Harbinger event ends, etc.). I think this Mission-categorizing setup makes sense; after all, what is the point of keeping around i.e. Merry Mayhem 2010 in our Completed Quest/Mission Logs? The only reason it became a Mission in the first place was to exploit the mob kill counter built into the Mission system. However, a separate fix would need to be considered for the Achievement system in order to have a complete solution.

    Another possible solution could be for MindArk to provide a way for participants to "purchase" miss-able Missions and/or Achievements. Purchased Missions would be added to the buyer's Completed Quest/Mission Log, while purchased Achievements would be added to the buyer's Achievement window. Once the price was paid, there would be no indication of whether a Mission or Achievement was completed naturally, or purchased. The buyer would have essentially completed the Mission or Achievement. This system would likely be presented through some sort of interesting lore, such as an underground psychic selling memories. Prices would likely depend upon the difficulty level of the Mission or Achievement, and could consist of PED and/or items that a participant must spend.

    There are certainly many different ways to combine or tweak these suggestions, and I would wager that the folks in charge could develop a much more thoroughly planned-out solution. I do hope that this issue is taken at least a bit seriously. I realize that some colonists could not care less about the matter, but I also know that there are many who would appreciate such an improvement to the Mission and Achievement systems. I have seen far too many newcomers become disappointed when realizing they are unable to complete the Calypso Gateway Missions due to a broken gun (of course, this situation can be remedied if one can gather enough surplus of items on the Gateway to trade for a gun, but only until he or she teleports off the island). I find it saddening that the best possible response to these newcomers is "learning to handle disappointment is part of Entropia." While this is technically true, other instances of disappointment in Entropia are temporary setbacks. These usually result in economic loss and/or wasted time, but they can be recovered from, once again thanks to the open-ended nature of our universe. Failing the Gateway Mission, along with screw-ups related to other Missions and Achievements, is a permanent and unnecessary type of disappointment. These Missions do not necessarily offer any magnificent rewards; it is simply part of the nature of gaming that many players strive to complete everything a game has in store. Some folks would contently play through a console game with an 85% completion percentage, and start the game again with another character/higher difficulty setting/etc. Others (myself included) would return to check out all the hidden items/secrets/etc., and complete the game 100% before moving on. All Entropia participants could theoretically be categorized as having one of these two gaming "mindsets," regardless of whether they have, in reality, picked up a console game. I think my entire wall of text summed up is essentially this: Just because Entropia dynamically expands and changes over time, why can't we try to structure it to satisfy both of these gaming mindsets? In fact, Entropia was already built this way, so now let's just pitch in a few pennies (to quickly and inexpensively tweak the Mission and Achievement systems) and keep Entropia this way. If a player misses the opportunity to collect an item, upgrade, etc. in i.e. The Legend of Zelda, he or she can choose to restart the game from the beginning in order to reach the 100% completion mark. Unfortunately, this is not practical in Entropia, as it is common for a single participant to invest thousands of hours into advancing his or her avatar, and a participant may only own one avatar at a time (additionally, some opportunities to complete Missions and Achievements expire at a set date, as opposed to expiring based upon in-world decisions, so restarting wouldn't help anyhow). Another point to consider is that the content of console games (at least offline ones) can be studied until fully understood, while Entropia is constantly being expanded and developed. This raises the question of whether forcing participants to make gameplay-altering decisions while completing Missions is even fair in a game like Entropia. It is actually possible for information which is required to make an intelligent decision to be added to the game after some colonists have already made the decision, which is why I believe MindArk and planet partners should limit the effect such decisions have on a participant's gameplay experience. The Mission and Achievement systems should better reflect the open-ended universe philosophy that feels so central to Entropia, and something should be done soon, while the planet partner model is still young.

    Finally, I would like to parenthetically add that the open-ended universe philosophy should be considered when designing future systems, such as Treasure Hunting.
    Last edited by TheOneOmega; 12-09-2011 at 19:49.




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