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  1. #21
    Dominant
    Joined
    Aug 09 2011
    Posts
    484
    Quote Originally Posted by Coz1969 View Post
    -Ability to set prices with PED and pec.... While I agree this might make selling items a bit easier, I also agree that implementing this function would be detrimental to shop owners, who are able to use this function.
    I see no rational reason to not allow PEC in auction. It makes no sense that someone with 110 units should be able to sell on auction at MV while someone with only 100 units will be forced to set a price that's so high above MV it won't sell. Can anyone give me a valid reason why prices should not be in PEC?

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  3. #22
    Young JaK UnLiMiTeD's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 16 2011
    Location
    mid-eastern USA
    Posts
    14
    I really like the idea of changing some economics of the game but I dont think more MA intervention is good. I agree MA should have their hand in some of the economy but not too much. I see MA as big Gov. and with that view I want little as possible. If any changes should be made to the economical side let me suggest that maybe auction items should only be items that are currently in shops. Make the auction (in terms of selling) only avalible to shop owners. Basically put, if you have a shop and place a item up for sale then that item automatically goes into auction list without time limits. This would make shops more profitable and worth wild having. This idea that anyone can use the auction has killed the shop concept in my opinion. With auction selling left to shop owners then street selling would then take a more active role and MU would then have a stronger application to sales. Or maybe I am just to high to think straight

  4. #23
    Old
    Joined
    Sep 10 2011
    Posts
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by Coz1969 View Post
    So, I have a question for you....

    Does NN stand for Negative Nellie? Seriously, m8... all you do is piss and moan about how you cannot make armor that you want, cannot trade the way you want, can't sell shit for high MU, etc.

    EU HAS seen many changes, improvements, etc just in the 3 1/2 years that I have been playing. If you cannot see that, and are so completely unhappy with the way EU is progressing, then STOP PLAYING!

    I have come to realize that the people who are going to make money from his game are those who invested lots of cash on property... the rest of us, well, if we are lucky, yeah.

    I play this game because I enjoy it. If you don't enjoy EU, and are just in it to try to make money, then perhaps you need to find something different... a job at McDonald's, perhaps.

    As far as economy goes, that is player driven. Can't sell shit on Caly? Transport it to another planet.. good for instance are texture extractors on Arkadia. They rarely drop... can't seem to find basic leather extractors at all, so MV of these are relatively high compared to Caly.

    Yes, MA controls item drops... but players control MV... supply and demand, just like in the realworld. No, I cannot sell 100 ped of animal eye oil for any profit to speak of... but yanno, I bet I can make a bit of a profit for 1000 ped eye oil.

    The reality of it is this...

    You want to vent... I get that. Seems you probably only vent when you are in a "down cycle", but as you don't post your avatar name, I can only speculate. Could be that your avatar hit 5 10k+ ubers, and now you are only getting globals, and wanna cry in your soup.

    Whatever it is, dude, stfu and either find a new game, or realize that EU IS game, not a means to support yourself irl.
    first of all let me make it perfectly clear that i wasn't bitching, i could've been, but i wasn't. I was however presenting you with my values, you were the one who took great offence of me doing so. perhabs it is time for you to consider the fact, that by you basing your own selfesteem on the rotten values of others, like MindArk 's bad business model you will loose a battle with me every time. You see you're are really attempting to defend a system that can no longer be an excuse. I feel your frustation however know this, I have designed a system that works for and every one else. A system where you longer have to feel abused or leeched upon. A system that no longer makes you feel insignificant or insufficient, innatequate. oh and please spare me your misplaced anger and lets work for eachother rather than against eachother. I work for your values here so show some respect . Sincerely The Nocturnal Navigator .

  5. #24
    Old Fifth's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 25 2012
    Posts
    74


    Robert Fludd's 1618 "water screw" perpetual motion machine from a 1660 wood engraving. This device is widely credited as the first recorded attempt to describe such a device in order to produce useful work, that of driving millstones.[1] Although the machine would not work, the idea was that water from the top tank turns a water wheel (bottom-left), which drives a complicated series of gears and shafts that ultimately rotate the Archimedes' screw (bottom-center to top-right) to pump water to refill the tank. The rotary motion of the water wheel also drives two grinding wheels (bottom-right) and is shown as providing sufficient excess water to lubricate them.

    wikipedia

  6. #25
    Old
    Joined
    Sep 10 2011
    Posts
    96

    here you go ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Coz1969 View Post
    It takes two to have a conversation, or to debate.... apparently, you want neither.
    take a look at my post on eu general discusion. It is called As it is. Sincerely The NN

  7. #26
    Hatchling
    Joined
    May 07 2012
    Posts
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by JaK UnLiMiTeD View Post
    I really like the idea of changing some economics of the game but I dont think more MA intervention is good. I agree MA should have their hand in some of the economy but not too much.
    Agreed. The biggest mistake is allowing ANY involvement on the part of MA. In my opinion the only loot MA should provide is in form of raw materials. Anything that's basic, from ores to residue to paints to oils and so on. And then leave it in the hands of players to craft everything else. I'm not a crafter myself, but it makes sense to put the economy in the hands of players. Let them decide what's useful and worth making. You won't see then so much crap TTed to oblivion. You will see then REAL competition on the market.

    I see MA as big Gov. and with that view I want little as possible. If any changes should be made to the economical side let me suggest that maybe auction items should only be items that are currently in shops. Make the auction (in terms of selling) only avalible to shop owners. Basically put, if you have a shop and place a item up for sale then that item automatically goes into auction list without time limits. This would make shops more profitable and worth wild having. This idea that anyone can use the auction has killed the shop concept in my opinion. With auction selling left to shop owners then street selling would then take a more active role and MU would then have a stronger application to sales. Or maybe I am just to high to think straight
    To hell with shop owners. One of the biggest mistakes made by MA a long time ago was implementing half-arsed, half-thought systems. Like shops. Or hangars for that matter. Then they realized what a pain in the ass they are comparing to an unified marketplace like the auction, but it was too late. Shops were already there, and no way to get rid of them except pissing off some players, the big 'investors', the shop owners. But getting rid of the auction would piss off even more customers, the large player base wanting to buy some stuff quickly and have fun instead of wandering aimlessly through the crappy network of shops scattered all over the world(s).
    I say: fuck the shop owners. You guys made an investment and it went south. The world evolved in a different direction. Shit happens. Shit happens in the real world too and businesses die. Why would be different in EU? Why should MA protect your investment or make it grow? Why should MA turn into some form of communist or protectionist 'big daddy' government to cuddle you and help you make money? Write off the losses as most of us do after a hunting or mining session and move on. Find other ways to make money. Harden up.

    Because the biggest threat to the growth of this world is hanging up to the past. Allowing old half-arsed systems and game designs to still exist in the game. Making future game designs plans based on this "Let's evolve around the old crap, otherwise some will cry" mind set. Well, let them cry if they can't adapt. Let them cry if they invested in a game more than they can afford to lose.

    And if new ideas and new plans are made, if the economy is made healthy again, then we can hope the game will recover and the worlds will be populated again.

  8. #27
    Old KlowN's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 17 2011
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by Arylia View Post
    To hell with shop owners. One of the biggest mistakes made by MA a long time ago was implementing half-arsed, half-thought systems. Like shops. Or hangars for that matter. Then they realized what a pain in the ass they are comparing to an unified marketplace like the auction, but it was too late. Shops were already there, and no way to get rid of them except pissing off some players, the big 'investors', the shop owners. But getting rid of the auction would piss off even more customers, the large player base wanting to buy some stuff quickly and have fun instead of wandering aimlessly through the crappy network of shops scattered all over the world(s).
    I say: fuck the shop owners. You guys made an investment and it went south. The world evolved in a different direction. Shit happens. Shit happens in the real world too and businesses die. Why would be different in EU? Why should MA protect your investment or make it grow? Why should MA turn into some form of communist or protectionist 'big daddy' government to cuddle you and help you make money? Write off the losses as most of us do after a hunting or mining session and move on. Find other ways to make money. Harden up.

    Because the biggest threat to the growth of this world is hanging up to the past. Allowing old half-arsed systems and game designs to still exist in the game. Making future game designs plans based on this "Let's evolve around the old crap, otherwise some will cry" mind set. Well, let them cry if they can't adapt. Let them cry if they invested in a game more than they can afford to lose.

    And if new ideas and new plans are made, if the economy is made healthy again, then we can hope the game will recover and the worlds will be populated again.
    Most stupid post on these forums...
    Fuck the shop owners? So....basically you want them to just get rid of the system completely, what is wrong with it now? Us shop owners selling stuff in our shops hurts you how? I'm sorry your too lazy to wander around some malls? Don't do it then...and theres tons of resources around, such as these forums, pcf, arkforum, etc. If a shop owner wants his business to be successful, then he advertises the shop on the forums/in game. Theres plenty of successful shop owners out there. Your laziness shouldn't ruin a game.

    Obviously you can tell from this post, you don't own a shop...so...what does it matter to you/what say do you have in it?

  9. #28
    Hatchling
    Joined
    Apr 28 2013
    Posts
    5

    thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Coz1969 View Post

    Whatever it is, dude, stfu and either find a new game, or realize that EU IS game, not a means to support yourself irl.
    Thanks for the tip, I have now cashed out and deleted EU.

    Not because it is just a virtual casino disguised as a game but because of the many other flaws that long term gamers stupidly defend.

  10. #29
    Hatchling
    Joined
    Jun 11 2013
    Posts
    5
    Likewise...I still have a bit of PED so I'm still playing, but I don't think I'll ever deposit again. There are simply too many other MMOs out there in which my dollar would go that much farther.

    Mindark should have an invested interest in helping out the small depositor. The only reason the big depositors spend $150k on moons/asteroids/space stations is because they expect a return on their investment. However, if the small depositors aren't having fun, they'll stop playing, and then the big depositors have nothing to gain.

    They also have the only means to help the economy because it's a virtual environment. In the real world, invention and innovation are only limited by physics. In Entropia, we can only create the products that Mindark allows us to create.

    The way they help small depositors is to incorporate low level mats and sweat into the recipes for consumable products. Mind Essence and Welding Wire are good examples.

    Sweat is important, because it is the in-game representation of man-hours. Steve Jobs may have founded Apple in his garage, but reality eventually forced him to expand into a company because he couldn't craft billions of computers on a Genesis Star Automatic Crafting Machine. The cost of a person's time is what real-world economics are all about and are the difference between an in-game economy and a virtual casino. Gameplay mechanics necessitate crafters using a machine, but they can simulate man-hours by putting sweat into the recipe.

    My solution would be to add recipes for crafted Energy Cells, crafted BLP ammo, and crafted Mine Probes, and a few new high level (and space) weapons and finders which use those ammunition types. In order to persuade the elite players to use those things, they would have to be more TT efficient to compensate for the player markup which would arise.

    This TT efficiency requires a leap of faith from the house, but they would still make their money...it would just change hands from a big depositor to a small depositor to a sweater before it ends up in a PED sink. The way they need to look at it is that the small depositor is never going to withdraw, so they just need to insure that they have as much fun as possible until that money inevitably ends up in a sink, because if they start having fun, they might want to deposit even more. It's actually the big depositors who present more of a problem for them because they can cash out.

  11. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Ailius View Post

    Sweat is important, because it is the in-game representation of man-hours. Steve Jobs may have founded Apple in his garage, but reality eventually forced him to expand into a company because he couldn't craft billions of computers on a Genesis Star Automatic Crafting Machine. The cost of a person's time is what real-world economics are all about and are the difference between an in-game economy and a virtual casino. Gameplay mechanics necessitate crafters using a machine, but they can simulate man-hours by putting sweat into the recipe.

    My solution would be to add recipes for crafted Energy Cells, crafted BLP ammo, and crafted Mine Probes, and a few new high level (and space) weapons and finders which use those ammunition types. In order to persuade the elite players to use those things, they would have to be more TT efficient to compensate for the player markup which would arise.
    This sweat has become the life of the most small depositor players in EU including myself. After extracting for long hours, when nobody gonna buy it because demand is very low and even if you able to sell it, there are times the price is not worth the effort exerted, sometimes I even thought of why this free sweat has not became an avatar food? If you get tired of extracting sweat, when nobody buy it your avatar can take it as food so everybody gonna need it and its free.

 

 
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