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Thread: Entropedia DMG.

  1. #1
    Hatchling
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    Entropedia DMG.

    Hi.
    I'm just wondering why entropedia counts dmg/sec as max dmg/sec?
    As for example entropedia says kiwio mark2 makes 3.8 dmg/sec. It has been counted from max dmg which is 5.

    http://www.entropedia.info/Search.as...io&type=search

    Kiwio mark2 makes 2.5-5 dmg. And that makes average 2.88 dmg/sec.
    Which btw makes 3.06 dmg/pec and not 2.827 dmg/pec as entropedia says.

    Then again on page:
    http://www.entropedia.info/Chart.aspx?chart=Weapon
    they say:
    Effective damage: Effective damage is based on average damage and is corrected for the hit rate of a maxed weapon.
    And calculation is giving 2.7 dmg/sec. Wrong again.
    Hit rate of maxed kiwio mark2 should be 90% according the entropedia.info
    (Hit rate = Hit ability + 80) %

    average 2.88 dmg/sec * 90% = 2.59 dmg/sec.

    What gives? Are they adding critical hit? That could this second thing.

    - matrixlawn
    Last edited by matrixlawn; 02-26-2013 at 12:19.

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  3. #2
    Alpha wizzszz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrixlawn View Post
    Hi.
    I'm just wondering why entropedia counts dmg/sec as max dmg/sec?
    There was a time where the effective damage was unknown due to lack of data - the best way to compare weapons back then was max. dmg/sec.

    Quote Originally Posted by matrixlawn View Post
    As for example entropedia says kiwio mark2 makes 3.8 dmg/sec. It has been counted from max dmg which is 5.
    The dmg/sec and dmg/PEC columns are not entered by users but calculated from the "Damage" and "Attacks" columns ("Decay", "Ammo" and ""Attacks" for dmg/PEC, respectively)

    Quote Originally Posted by matrixlawn View Post
    Kiwio mark2 makes 2.5-5 dmg. And that makes average 2.88 dmg/sec.
    Which btw makes 3.06 dmg/pec and not 2.827 dmg/pec as entropedia says.
    (2.5+5.0)/2 *46 /60 = 2.875

    This results in a 2.875 dmg/SECOND.

    This value is not suited to calculate the dmg/PEC from, because dmg/PEC is NOT adjusted by attacks/second

    Quote Originally Posted by matrixlawn View Post
    Then again on page:
    http://www.entropedia.info/Chart.aspx?chart=Weapon
    they say:
    Effective damage: Effective damage is based on average damage and is corrected for the hit rate of a maxed weapon.
    And calculation is giving 2.7 dmg/sec. Wrong again.
    Hit rate of maxed kiwio mark2 should be 90% according the entropedia.info
    (Hit rate = Hit ability + 80) %

    average 2.88 dmg/sec * 90% = 2.59 dmg/sec.

    What gives? Are they adding critical hit? That could this second thing.

    - matrixlawn
    Effective damage is calculated on the values you have entered for the Hit and Dmg professions used by this weapon - if you don't have maxed both, your personal results will obviously vary.

    And yes, critical hits are taken into account.




    And on a personal sidenote:
    If your math gives different results, why is the first option that springs to your mind to blame entropedia?

    People are using it for many years now, do you think such big differences would remain unnoticed for so long?

    Isn't it more likely that you've made a mistake rather than hundreds of people working with entropedia?
    Last edited by wizzszz; 02-26-2013 at 13:03.
    Not a single fuck shall be given today

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrixlawn View Post
    Hi.
    I'm just wondering why entropedia counts dmg/sec as max dmg/sec?
    As for example entropedia says kiwio mark2 makes 3.8 dmg/sec. It has been counted from max dmg which is 5.

    http://www.entropedia.info/Search.as...io&type=search
    On a weapon's info page in Entropedia, and consequently on the search page, the max info is shown.

    Max dps = max damage * attacks/min / 60
    for the Kiwio II, that's 5 * 46 / 60 = 3.8313 rounded to 3.8

    Kiwio mark2 makes 2.5-5 dmg. And that makes average 2.88 dmg/sec.
    Which btw makes 3.06 dmg/pec and not 2.827 dmg/pec as entropedia says.

    Then again on page:
    http://www.entropedia.info/Chart.aspx?chart=Weapon
    they say:
    Effective damage: Effective damage is based on average damage and is corrected for the hit rate of a maxed weapon.
    And calculation is giving 2.7 dmg/sec. Wrong again.
    Hit rate of maxed kiwio mark2 should be 90% according the entropedia.info
    (Hit rate = Hit ability + 80) %

    average 2.88 dmg/sec * 90% = 2.59 dmg/sec.

    What gives? Are they adding critical hit? That could this second thing.

    - matrixlawn
    In the Weapons Chart, you will have 'Effective Damage' ticked as a default in the chart header. If you remove that, the chart will revert to the maxed info.

    Using Effective Damage however, gives a much better comparison point.

    If you do not have the 'Skill based' box ticked, Entropedia will show the values based on the weapon being maxed (ie Skill Progress = 100%)

    For a maxed weapon, the average damage is 75% of the maximal damage, and you will hit 92.5% of the time. So to calculate the effective damage for a maxed weapon:

    Effective damage = Maximal damage * 0.75 * 0.925

    for the Kiwio II, that's 5 x 0.75 x 0.925 = 3.4688


    so the Effective dps on a maxed Kiwio II is:

    3.4688 * 46 / 60 = 2.6594 (rounded to 2.7)

    If you have not yet maxed the Kiwio II, and want to see the effective dps for your skill level, tick the 'skills based' box in the chart header and add your professional levels for Laser Rifle (Hit) and Ranged Laser (Dmg) to the Hit Profession and Damage Profession fields respectively.

  5. #4
    Hatchling
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    And on a personal sidenote:
    If your math gives different results, why is the first option that springs to your mind to blame entropedia?

    People are using it for many years now, do you think such big differences would remain unnoticed for so long?

    Isn't it more likely that you've made a mistake rather than hundreds of people working with entropedia?
    Umm.. that's why I'm here. I am wondering why it calculates things wrong.
    And.. I don't make mistakes in math.

    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    (2.5+5.0)/2 *46 /60 = 2.875

    This results in a 2.875 dmg/SECOND.
    LINK HERE
    This says 3.8 dmg/SECOND.

    Which is not dmg/SECOND but MAX dmg/second.

    Serica already said that it calculates really MAX dmg/sec but it says in weapon page "dmg/sec".

    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    This value is not suited to calculate the dmg/PEC from, because dmg/PEC is NOT adjusted by attacks/second
    True. I forgot to tell that in my calc I didn't use that dmg/sec in dmg/pec calc but I used AVERAGE dmg in dmg/pec calc. Doesn't make any difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    Effective damage is calculated on the values you have entered for the Hit and Dmg professions used by this weapon - if you don't have maxed both, your personal results will obviously vary.

    And yes, critical hits are taken into account.
    Ok but nothing says about critical hits taken into account in entropedia.info. Only mentions about hit rate.



    So the conclusion is:
    Weapon page of entropedia.info should say Max dmg/sec.
    Weapon chart page (effective damage) should say there is also critical hits counted.

  6. #5
    Old Thran's Avatar
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    If hit rate of a maxed weapon is 92.5% then this page is wrong
    http://www.entropedia.info/Page.aspx?page=Hit+rate
    and when you include critical hit ability it should be 76.5% (0.75*1.02=0.765) as per http://www.entropedia.info/Page.aspx...al+hit+ability
    But Serica's calculations and allways rounding up to 1 decimal seems to fit what you find if you use Effective damage on the page.

  7. #6
    Alpha wizzszz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrixlawn View Post
    Umm.. that's why I'm here. I am wondering why it calculates things wrong.
    It doesn't - it just doesn't do what you expect it to do.

    Weapon detail pages (as well as search results) are showing MAX dmg/sec

    "Real" dmg/sec depends on your profession levels, as outlined by me earlier, and are taken into account only on the weapons main page:

    http://www.entropedia.info/Chart.aspx?chart=Weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by matrixlawn View Post
    And.. I don't make mistakes in math.
    Interesting, so if you're not human, what kind of being are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by matrixlawn View Post
    LINK HERE
    This says 3.8 dmg/SECOND.

    Which is not dmg/SECOND but MAX dmg/second.

    Serica already said that it calculates really MAX dmg/sec but it says in weapon page "dmg/sec".
    It displays max damage for historical reasons, as outlined in my last post - if you want customized results (and effective dmg/sec IS customized) visit the main weapons page.

    http://www.entropedia.info/Chart.aspx?chart=Weapon


    Quote Originally Posted by matrixlawn View Post
    True. I forgot to tell that in my calc I didn't use that dmg/sec in dmg/pec calc but I used AVERAGE dmg in dmg/pec calc. Doesn't make any difference.
    Ermm, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by matrixlawn View Post
    Ok but nothing says about critical hits taken into account in entropedia.info. Only mentions about hit rate.
    Critical hit rate depends on the (Hit) profession just as "normal" hit rate, so knowing one is enough.

    Effective dmg/sec does of course include the crits - it does include the misses, too - would it be still "effective" when it excludes the extra damage from crits?

    Quote Originally Posted by matrixlawn View Post
    So the conclusion is:
    Weapon page of entropedia.info should say Max dmg/sec.
    Weapon chart page (effective damage) should say there is also critical hits counted.
    As long as it is not customized (showing a checkbox for "Effective Damage") it displays max damage - maybe it should read "max. dmg/sec to avoid confusions, but i don't mind - if you deem this is important, feel free to contact Witte and request a fix.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thran View Post
    If hit rate of a maxed weapon is 92.5% then this page is wrong
    http://www.entropedia.info/Page.aspx?page=Hit+rate
    Yes, that is wrong afaik.
    Not a single fuck shall be given today

 

 

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