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  1. #11
    Provider Spawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    These tests are seriously pointless, unless the rest of the setup is 100% the same (lack of data on the frontside bus speed in most setups, two test do not even mention them... this is the usual window-dressing for gamers...)

    Maybe you could fill me in there and explain to me what the CPUs part in rendering 3D graphics is, because in my universe that's the job of the GPU only.



    True.
    No. I am just a gamer nerd.You clearly have all the answers. Good luck in your universe where 3d rendering is the job of the gpu only.

    But ... you could google " crisis3 cpu dependent". You will probably get 100 links of silly gamer nerds saying that it is cpu dependent . Dont believe it. Your opinion is always superior to whatever anybody says.
    Last edited by Spawn; 07-02-2013 at 14:35.

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  3. #12
    Alpha wizzszz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
    No. I am just a gamer nerd.You clearly have all the answers. Good luck in your universe where 3d rendering is the job of the gpu only.

    But ... you could google " crisis3 cpu dependent". You will probably get 100 links of silly gamer nerds saying that it is cpu dependent . Dont believe it. Your opinion is always superior to whatever anybody says.
    And all the lemmings jumping down cliffs are right, too?

    That you can come up with 100 links only proves that it is a very common misconception.

    Being nerd doesn't make you an expert, i guess you will agree with me there.
    And being an Intel fanboi doesn't make other processors bad, i guess you will agree there, too.


    You dodged my objection btw: as the graphics card i.e. accesses ram a lot, front side bus speed is vital - yet no single test you have posted seems to know that...


    /Edit:
    Being the nice guy that i am, i found you some snippet from the web:

    For years, PC hardware sites have maintained that CPUs have little impact on gaming performance; all you need is a decent graphics card. That position is largely supported by FPS averages
    Rendering is the job of the graphics card only.

    The CPU still does some things, like object tracking, collision detection, mob AI, sound and network communication. But THATS ABOUT IT. No need for a high end processor for these basic tasks - and no, it will not affect your FPS.
    Last edited by wizzszz; 07-03-2013 at 18:54.
    Not a single fuck shall be given today

  4. #13
    Provider Spawn's Avatar
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    The CPU still does some things, like object tracking, collision detection, mob AI, sound and network communication. But THATS ABOUT IT. No need for a high end processor for these basic tasks - and no, it will not affect your FPS.
    the half-life 2 engine was an engine that was more dependent on cpu than on gpu, you could run it smoothly on for that time old graphics cards, which was quite surprising. cpu did matter because the physics had to be rendered by the cpu.

    when farcry came out things changed and with crysis things changed even more. system became almost fully gpu dependent again just as it had been in the pre half-life 2 era (remember voodoo?)

    but.. now with crysis 3 not only do you need a fast sata bus to plug the biggest gfx card in that you can find, but you will also need a decent multi-core processor.

    and yes (front side) bus speeds always matter but that's sidestepping.

    last post on the matter from me, after all it was made clear I know nothing.

  5. #14
    Alpha wizzszz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
    the half-life 2 engine was an engine that was more dependent on cpu than on gpu, you could run it smoothly on for that time old graphics cards, which was quite surprising. cpu did matter because the physics had to be rendered by the cpu.
    Physics are not "rendered".

    And of course the CPU can calculate 3d graphics, too (i.e. Raytracing), but nobody would ever consider that, knowing that the GPU does a much better (and, above all, faster) job.

    As far as half-life is concerned: Proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
    when farcry came out things changed and with crysis things changed even more. system became almost fully gpu dependent again just as it had been in the pre half-life 2 era (remember voodoo?)
    Pardon? It has ALWAYS been the case that the GPU renders 3D graphics, and the CPU just does the physics, collision detection and such.

    Nothing "changed" with farcry.
    And the voodoo cards were no exception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
    but.. now with crysis 3 not only do you need a fast sata bus to plug the biggest gfx card in that you can find, but you will also need a decent multi-core processor.
    You need a good gfx card. It has always been like that. The CPU is pretty much neglectable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
    and yes (front side) bus speeds always matter but that's sidestepping.
    It matters a lot when the gfx card uses shared memory.

    However, i take it you agree with me that a test that doesn't pay attention to bus speed is useless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
    last post on the matter from me, after all it was made clear I know nothing.
    Don't be mad - that the CPU matters is a rather tenacious gamer myth.

    It is a result of a general "my rig has higher frequency, my rig has more cores, ..." e-dick contest amongst people who have hardly ever used that thing...

    Gamer forums are hardly a good source when it comes to hard facts.
    Not a single fuck shall be given today

  6. #15
    Old Alpha Nor Alien's Avatar
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    This is not really anything but I thought I would post it here.

    And everything that was mentioned above becomes possible with the new GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) technologies. GPU highly efficient parallel processor, with hundreds of cores, excels at tackling large amounts of data simultaneously. GPUs and CPUs work together to process application workloads. CPU handles simple serial tasks, carries out the instructions of a computer program by performing the basic arithmetical, logical, and input/output operations of the system while GPU handles more visual and compute intensive workloads. The result is a transformation of everyday PCs into professional workstations and supercomputers.
    This taken from here. http://www.novatte.com/our-blog/287-gpu-rendering

  7. #16
    Provider Spawn's Avatar
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    ok ok.. I said I wouldn't post another.. but well can't stay away I guess.

    While whiszzss has professionally declassified me from posting here because I don't meet his high quality standards and also ALL gamer sites are evil in their analysis of games, he still tends to reply to me. So here's another:


    As you may have heard, Crysis 3 is a DX11-only title and we have to confess that it sports the best visuals we’ve ever seen. However, it seems that CryEngine 3 is being pushed to its limits with those physics calculations that were introduced. Ironically, all physics are calculated by the CPU, meaning that you will nee a really top of the line CPU in order to enjoy it.
    So for crysis 3 the cpu is important, which I already stated earlier.

    This basically means that in order to enjoy Crysis 3, you will need a high-end CPU and a top of the line GPU. But what is causing this heavy CPU usage? Is the AI more advanced this time around? Unfortunately, no. It appears that the culprit here is the game’s physics that are being calculated by the CPU. Let’s take a look at an example, shall we?

    crysis3_2013_03_01_00_29_52_857

    This screenshot showcases why Crysis 3 is under-performing on most – relatively old – CPUs. In this huge environment, there are currently no enemies, meaning that there shouldn’t be anything stressing our CPU, right? Well, guess again. See all this foliage? Well, the good – and the bad – news is that physics are applied to almost every blade of grass. This obviously means that the CPU has to do a lot of calculations and this is what is killing Crysis 3′s performance (provided you are no GPU limited of course). Contrary to what Sony showcased during PS4 meeting – and what Nvidia and AMD have been pushing for this entire time – those physics are not calculated by the GPU. And that’s the biggest issue of CryEngine 3 in our opinion. We believe that if those physics were calculated by the GPU, we’d be getting a better performance, and that would save a lot of CPU resources. On the other hand, users reported that Crysis 3 takes advantage of Hyper Threading, meaning that the engine scales incredibly well even on more than four cores. It’s a really weird situation, that gets even worse as there is no physics option to adjust. In addition, even on the lowest settings, we were only getting 45fps in that particular scene. Ouch. We should note that things get better while progressing the game (as our framerate jumped from 30s to 45-50 during a firefight with the CELL in that particular level).
    taken from
    http://www.dsogaming.com/pc-performa...ance-analysis/

    as for half-life 2 the graphics are fully scaleable. it will run on about any 3d card.

    here it is on geforce 2

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdOvCFloKNk[/ame]

    and can we get it for commodore 64 please:

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0vFGldrL6Y[/ame]
    Last edited by Spawn; 07-23-2013 at 16:21.

  8. #17
    Alpha wizzszz's Avatar
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    Let's have look on what i said earlier:

    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    .. what the CPUs part in rendering 3D graphics is, because in my universe that's the job of the GPU only.
    Now you try to shift the topic to "the CPUs job in running a game engine", which does not even address what i said.

    However, that bit of physics runs fine on a run-of-the-mill CPU.

    Or in other words, if you buy a computer with a good gfx card, the cpu will be more than sufficient to deal with the physics.


    There might be extreme cases where people run a pentium with a high end gfx card, and yes, there the CPU might become the bottleneck, but this is hardly a realistic scenario.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
    ... ALL gamer sites are evil in their analysis of games ...
    Gamer sites are run by gamers, not coders. All the answers there are given from gamers, not coders.

    If you want to find out how the human body works, would you rather ask an athlete (using the body) or a medic (knowing what your body does while you use it)?

    I'd sure ask a medic.


    And btw - i am a coder. No matter how many gamers you will find that confirm your point of view, it is still false.

    100 false opinions do not outweight one well-founded opinion, not even in the (ivory tower) gaming world.
    Not a single fuck shall be given today

  9. #18
    Provider Spawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    Let's have look on what i said earlier:



    Now you try to shift the topic to "the CPUs job in running a game engine", which does not even address what i said.

    However, that bit of physics runs fine on a run-of-the-mill CPU.

    Or in other words, if you buy a computer with a good gfx card, the cpu will be more than sufficient to deal with the physics.


    There might be extreme cases where people run a pentium with a high end gfx card, and yes, there the CPU might become the bottleneck, but this is hardly a realistic scenario.




    Gamer sites are run by gamers, not coders. All the answers there are given from gamers, not coders.

    If you want to find out how the human body works, would you rather ask an athlete (using the body) or a medic (knowing what your body does while you use it)?

    I'd sure ask a medic.


    And btw - i am a coder. No matter how many gamers you will find that confirm your point of view, it is still false.

    100 false opinions do not outweight one well-founded opinion, not even in the (ivory tower) gaming world.
    No.. you shifted it.

    original question you asked was this:

    And in what way an Intel would be better here?

    Well Intel would be better because most intel processors run tasks faster than most amd processors. and that's important because I showed you some examples where the cpu does matter. and in the case of crysis 3 (not the current entropia engine) the cpu cannot be run of the mill (celeron, pentium, poor amd processor) because the physics are rendered by the cpu and it will severely take a bite out of your framerate, no matter which powerhorse of a gpu you have. I'm not saying it shouldn't be an amd processor, but it should be a fast one if you get one. If cryengine 3 is the trend and cpu will help the gpu do physics and other tasks and you need a big cpu to keep your framerate, then op should get a decent processor.

  10. #19
    Alpha wizzszz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
    No.. you shifted it.

    original question you asked was this:

    And in what way an Intel would be better here?
    That, according to you, Intel is better than other processors is ANOTHER topic. It is slightly related to the CPU vs. GPU topic, but that's about it.
    You are the one trying to merge them into one thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
    Well Intel would be better because most intel processors run tasks faster than most amd processors.
    More gamer myths. Both have their advantages, prefering one over the other is merely a matter of taste and gut feeling than hard facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
    and that's important because I showed you some examples where the cpu does matter. and in the case of crysis 3 (not the current entropia engine) the cpu cannot be run of the mill (celeron, pentium, poor amd processor) because the physics are rendered by the cpu and it will severely take a bite out of your framerate, no matter which powerhorse of a gpu you have.
    Physics are not being "rendered". Images are rendered, physics are just calculating positions and movement of objects.

    And calculating the physics is not enough to utilize a standard processor to the full. There is simply no need for a lot of power. This only a myth and the result of the the gamer version of an e-dick contest.

    No idea what kind of proof you think you have provided, but all the gamer forum myths are not worth reading.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
    I'm not saying it shouldn't be an amd processor, but it should be a fast one if you get one. If cryengine 3 is the trend and cpu will help the gpu do physics and other tasks and you need a big cpu to keep your framerate, then op should get a decent processor.
    No, you said it has to be a high end processor - which is simply incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
    If cryengine 3 is the trend and cpu will help the gpu do physics and other tasks ...
    The GPU does NOT compute PHYSICS. The CPU doesn't have to help the GPU in any way there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
    ... and you need a big cpu to keep your framerate, then op should get a decent processor.
    IF you need... but this is not the case.
    This is only what YOU claim, and i say this is complete and uttermost nonsense.




    Look, you haven't even understood what the GPU does and what it doesn't do. Same goes for what the CPU does.
    You last lines sufficiently prove this.
    And nonetheless you are trying to teach the world about these things.

    Sorry, but this is a mere joke - you should really consider doing some research before you try to lecture anyone.



    Why is it that always the most ignorant are trying to tell you how the world works??
    Not a single fuck shall be given today

  11. #20
    Provider Spawn's Avatar
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    Why is it that always the most ignorant are trying to tell you how the world works??
    This. Provide me with one link of proof that crysis 3 doesn't need a decent processor combined with a good gpu.

    Provide me with proof that physics is not normally done by the gpu.
    (http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx-9...13-driver.html)

    I've given you several links and even youtubes, that you sweep away claiming gamer's sites don't know nothing and shouldn't be treated seriously, when all they do is put games on the bench and test them, testing different processors and different gfx cards. And yes an amd mobo is not an intel mobo. there are differences. but the real deal is when you put the same gfx card into those mobos and then see what the fps is with the same game.
    I dare you to give me any link that says most amd processors run cryengine, 2 or 3 better with the same gfx card compared to intel processors. I've given you some links in one of my first posts that state the exact opposite and that the differences are not 1, 2, or 3 frames per second.

    I'm not the one ignorant here. I'm not trying to declassify you or calling you names. That's all you. You've mentioned e-dicks twice. I wonder who you're referring to.

 

 
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