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  1. #31
    Dominant
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    I haven't asked what they do - i have asked how they work.
    Just a guess: A resistor, wired to a simple A/D converter. Then a driver checks the values regularily. "Emergency" ones probably is a termo-sensitive resistor wired to a semiconductor and then to a pin of a transistor (to trigger something at a hard-wired level).

    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    Reboot or shutdown.
    And those two reactions are the only possible reactions to prevent the system from hardware damage.
    So, how can a single component perform an orderly shutdown or reboot without software support? (Besides emergency types that simply pull the RST wire or immediate ATX psu shutdown).

    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    Cool story. Does that somehow contribute to the topic?
    Some areas -> Higher GPU temperature. Without proper cooling the temperature can go more or less out of control. And high temperatures can lead to graphic artifacts.

    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    Failing fans will just trigger the same reactions: reboot or shutdown.
    Can you enlighten us how a failing fan triggers a reboot or shutdown? Are *all* fans in a computer monitored? (Note: failing fan. Not shutdown triggerd by a temperature sensor.)

    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    Hardly. Even in the moderate climate zone i am in an air temperature of 40C is unlikely, but not impossible.

    Are you just guessing here?

    Every computer should be able to handle 40C ambient temperature.
    As long as I don't have the computer infront of me, and I can perform hand-on tests with it I can only guess what the problem is.

    If all computers can handle 40 oC, can you explain the climate in professional server halls? Can there be a relationship between temperature and estimated lifetime on components, and relationship between temperature and quantum effects?

    If a processor is say 60 oC when ambient temperature is 20 oC, isn't it likely that the processor could be 80 oC when the ambient temperature is 40 oC? And that though the processor should manage it, that if it's stressed hard enough it could cause hardware failure?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    Could you provide a link?
    Because i am quite sure that has never been officially stated.

    And EU runs fine on mine, nowhere near being an "explicitely created for gaming" laptop.
    URL to ingame chatting? You must be kidding...
    I've never said it's an official statement from MA. It's years of experience: Laptops -> Typically weaker graphics and higher risk of crashes. Since vu8 at least. With the exception of laptop computers that has been speficically designed for gaming, like Alienware. (As of VU10 probably a slightly lesser issue; in some cases other parts of the game makes it run impractically slow on older computers ie due to "showup lag" and when shader level 3 became a requirement for colored avatars).

    If it runs fine on your laptop, can you tell which type it is?

    As for the meaning of drivers, at least in the past there has been graphic drivers that caused hardware damage because they failed to monitor the heat properly, or they were too "optimistic" about fan speeds (to keep noise down).
    Another case where software had caused hardware damage was the software that mined bitcoins (for the company bosses), using the GPU more intense than was normal.
    Last edited by aia; 09-05-2013 at 21:48.
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  3. #32
    Old Alpha Nor Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aia View Post
    Just a guess: A resistor, wired to a simple A/D converter. Then a driver checks the values regularily. "Emergency" ones probably is a termo-sensitive resistor wired to a semiconductor and then to a pin of a transistor (to trigger something at a hard-wired level).



    So, how can a single component perform an orderly shutdown or reboot without software support? (Besides emergency types that simply pull the RST wire or immediate ATX psu shutdown).



    Some areas -> Higher GPU temperature. Without proper cooling the temperature can go more or less out of control. And high temperatures can lead to graphic artifacts.



    Can you enlighten us how a failing fan triggers a reboot or shutdown? Are *all* fans in a computer monitored? (Note: failing fan. Not shutdown triggerd by a temperature sensor.)



    As long as I don't have the computer infront of me, and I can perform hand-on tests with it I can only guess what the problem is.

    If all computers can handle 40 oC, can you explain the climate in professional server halls? Can there be a relationship between temperature and estimated lifetime on components, and relationship between temperature and quantum effects?

    If a processor is say 60 oC when ambient temperature is 20 oC, isn't it likely that the processor could be 80 oC when the ambient temperature is 40 oC? And that though the processor should manage it, that if it's stressed hard enough it could cause hardware failure?



    URL to ingame chatting? You must be kidding...
    I've never said it's an official statement from MA. It's years of experience: Laptops -> Typically weaker graphics and higher risk of crashes. Since vu8 at least. With the exception of laptop computers that has been speficically designed for gaming, like Alienware. (As of VU10 probably a slightly lesser issue; in some cases other parts of the game makes it run impractically slow on older computers ie due to "showup lag" and when shader level 3 became a requirement for colored avatars).

    If it runs fine on your laptop, can you tell which type it is?

    As for the meaning of drivers, at least in the past there has been graphic drivers that caused hardware damage because they failed to monitor the heat properly, or they were too "optimistic" about fan speeds (to keep noise down).
    Another case where software had caused hardware damage was the software that mined bitcoins (for the company bosses), using the GPU more intense than was normal.
    You don't need an A to D converter for the computers newer then 90.

    You can still use a thermistor resistor for the input. You just read the inputed values and set thresholds either in analog or digital depending on the component, and as each threshold is reached, set the output value in voltage to the fan to increase at every threshold. Have absolute threshold that triggers a safety shutdown once reached. Set a input value to stop the restarting of the computer until the input level has been reached. Once the value is reached, after stratup, set an output message stating, a overheating issue has been triggered with the temp in degrees and Fahrenheit, time of incident, the component effected, and a link for suggested resolution of said problem. Link: http://lifehacker.com/5570909/how-to...-its-important : or something along those lines. You may have a link to your own page with suggestions.

    With the newer boards, these thermo's are imbedded directly into the board, but you can get them after market and setup your own program to read the pins attached to the thermo's.

  4. #33
    Alpha wizzszz's Avatar
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    Aia, have we, yet again, reached the point where the exchange of arguments becomes mere hairsplicing, just to not let the other side "win" the debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by aia View Post
    Just a guess: A resistor, wired to a simple A/D converter. Then a driver checks the values regularily. "Emergency" ones probably is a termo-sensitive resistor wired to a semiconductor and then to a pin of a transistor (to trigger something at a hard-wired level).
    Not exactly, but my point was that it is an extremely simple construction. Those hardly ever fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by aia View Post
    So, how can a single component perform an orderly shutdown or reboot without software support? (Besides emergency types that simply pull the RST wire or immediate ATX psu shutdown).
    Why "besides"?
    Are the built in emergency shutdown solutions somehow not good enough for you??



    Quote Originally Posted by aia View Post
    Some areas -> Higher GPU temperature. Without proper cooling the temperature can go more or less out of control. And high temperatures can lead to graphic artifacts.
    Higher ambient temperature -> higher fan speed.
    Does have no effect on the temperature of the components, unless you are talking about extreme cases.

    Same component temperature = same behaviour.

    I still see no relevance to the topic here.

    Quote Originally Posted by aia View Post
    Can you enlighten us how a failing fan triggers a reboot or shutdown? Are *all* fans in a computer monitored? (Note: failing fan. Not shutdown triggerd by a temperature sensor.)
    Oh please, how dumb can we go??

    Of course a broken fan will result in overheating which in turn results in a temp sensor shutting the computer down.

    Quote Originally Posted by aia View Post
    If all computers can handle 40 oC, can you explain the climate in professional server halls? Can there be a relationship between temperature and estimated lifetime on components, and relationship between temperature and quantum effects?
    Are you really asking me this?



    Quote Originally Posted by aia View Post
    If a processor is say 60 oC when ambient temperature is 20 oC, isn't it likely that the processor could be 80 oC when the ambient temperature is 40 oC? And that though the processor should manage it, that if it's stressed hard enough it could cause hardware failure?
    No, it's not likely - the processor will still be at 60C (using your simplified example), it will just take more 40C air to cool it, hence the fans are running at a higher speed...

    Quote Originally Posted by aia View Post
    URL to ingame chatting? You must be kidding...
    I've never said it's an official statement from MA. It's years of experience: Laptops -> Typically weaker graphics and higher risk of crashes. Since vu8 at least. With the exception of laptop computers that has been speficically designed for gaming, like Alienware. (As of VU10 probably a slightly lesser issue; in some cases other parts of the game makes it run impractically slow on older computers ie due to "showup lag" and when shader level 3 became a requirement for colored avatars).
    That's plain dumb - i have never asked for an "URL to ingame chat".
    If you can provide a copy from your chat.log that'd be fine, otherwise i'll just say "this shit never happened".

    And btw - i wouldn't take a single computer advice from MA officials, not even if my life depended on it: They don't know shit and just regurgitate what they read on gamer kiddie forums (the usual myths).

    Quote Originally Posted by aia View Post
    If it runs fine on your laptop, can you tell which type it is?
    It runs fine on several laptops i own (and owned).

    Well, not exactly "fine", because this game never ever ran "fine" on any rig - it just runs as good on my laptops as on any other (desktop) computer.

    Quote Originally Posted by aia View Post
    As for the meaning of drivers, at least in the past there has been graphic drivers that caused hardware damage because they failed to monitor the heat properly, or they were too "optimistic" about fan speeds (to keep noise down).
    The monitoring of the temperature is (and should be) independent from graphic card drivers - the computer will shut down nonetheless.

    Actually, fan speed is (with the ability to intercept through software) independent from software, or ever computer would fry itself first time it freezes.

    Quote Originally Posted by aia View Post
    Another case where software had caused hardware damage was the software that mined bitcoins (for the company bosses), using the GPU more intense than was normal.
    Bitcoin mining is done "for company bosses" now?? What company bosses???

    If you use several high end gfx cards in the same computer it is technically possible that you have niches where the heat concentrates, too far from the heat sensors to trigger them.

    This is, however, not even close to the (wide range of) standard scenarios we are discussing here - of couse it is possible to create scenarios where you can provoke such problems. You don't need to buy a bunch of gfx cards now though, there are easier ways to achieve this.
    Not a single fuck shall be given today

  5. #34
    Dominant
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    The monitoring of the temperature is (and should be) independent from graphic card drivers - the computer will shut down nonetheless.
    https://forums.geforce.com/default/t...hing-problems/

    I think that pretty much everyone's problems are related to overheating of the GPU which relates to fan speed issues but I may be wrong but im just saying as most of those problems do relate to overheating
    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    Actually, fan speed is (with the ability to intercept through software) independent from software, or ever computer would fry itself first time it freezes.
    http://forums.auroraos.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1297
    Hi,

    I recently installed eeebuntu on an eee pc 900 and it has begun to get extremely hot around the touchpad.
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1608569
    hi to all.
    i have installed the latest ubuntu 10.10 netbook edition on my asus eeepc 900 and the fan cooling not works!
    i have tried to install some utility like eeepc-applet to control fan cooling etc...but the same not work.
    http://hartvig.de/2008/howto-reduce-...1000h-part-ii/
    Howto: Reduce fan noise level on the eee pc 900 / 1000 / 1000H : Part II
    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    Bitcoin mining is done "for company bosses" now?? What company bosses???
    http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/...mining-lawsuit

    Youtube Movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GXpnwwM_wo

    (I'll clarify: It an employee of Another Company that inserted this into their software. It's *not* any of MindArk's bosses.)
    Last edited by aia; 09-11-2013 at 14:05.
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  6. #35
    Dominant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nor Alien View Post
    Link: http://lifehacker.com/5570909/how-to...-its-important : or something along those lines. You may have a link to your own page with suggestions.

    With the newer boards, these thermo's are imbedded directly into the board, but you can get them after market and setup your own program to read the pins attached to the thermo's.
    On my old computer (currently spare computer) I've had heat problems from pretty much day one. (Step one was to replace the Athlon CPU to another AMD generation that was cooler, step two was motherboard.) When entropia evolved, I had to upgrade the graphics and then I got heat problem there, sigh lol.

    I got a program, "nvmonitor" or something like that, that made realtime graphs of the temperature on the graphic card. Step one was to put another fan in the computer case, and as it didn't work (a few capacitors on my graphic card popped and took the power supply with it), I put in a fan above the (passive cooled) graphic card and from that point and I think that solved the temperature problem. (I also had a harddrive that pretty much said thanks & goodbye after a year of use because of heat, but it was in a too tight external case).

    Now I think I have the temperature in my old computer under control. I don't use it much for entropia though, I bought the new computer when I realized I wouldn't stand the 10 minute it would take to open up inventory while being in Twin Peaks ("show-up lag").

    As for dust, my old computer is easy to open the chassis on so that one I've dusted a few times. My new computer I haven't opened yet, on the other hand it's on the opposite side of the room, far away from my dusty feet.

    The kind of heat problem that comes with a broken CPU fan I've luckily haven't had. And on my old computer, I don't have to worry about PSU fan - it doesn't have any ,) (well kind'a reason first thing I did was to put in a separate chassis fan - a big Noctua one). If I don't want to be able to play entropia on it, I could possibly remove all fans on the old one except the CPU fan. (it might be too warm though if left running for too long time then).
    Last edited by aia; 09-11-2013 at 17:19.
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  7. #36
    Alpha wizzszz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aia View Post
    {lots of bullshit links}
    I have no idea what you are trying to prove or disprove here by linking posts from users that have as little clue as you - moreover from people evangelizing the same "overheating is causing all your computer issues" myths.

    I am a bit surprised that you deem these links somehow "qualified info"...


    And as far as bitcoins are concerned - what BOSSES, ffs??

    There were a gazillion (roughly) customers who claimed the brakes on their toyota were malfunctioning, too (an unprecedented smear campaign btw) - and it turned out to be only single incident where there was indeed something broken.

    If customers, especially US customers, smell a chance to make a quick buck by claiming reimbursement from a company, they will do.
    Does not mean that really 275 computers got damaged.

    Please, rethink what a reliable source really means - you appear to have serious definition problems there...
    Not a single fuck shall be given today

  8. #37
    Dominant
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    I have no idea what you are trying to prove or disprove here by linking posts from users that have as little clue as you - moreover from people evangelizing the same "overheating is causing all your computer issues" myths.
    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    Aia, have we, yet again, reached the point where the exchange of arguments becomes mere hairsplicing, just to not let the other side "win" the debate?
    ....

    (Just fyi: I have an Asus eeepc 900, and one of the few updates that I got from asus corp. using the built in system update program an update to the system to prevent it from overheating; that's why I included asus eeepc links. I can't run entropia on it and I leave it to your imagination why installation program won't even start. I consider the computer manufacturer to be a relatively reliable source.)

    I consider myself lucky for not being a moderator, so I have to read posts from everyone..
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  9. #38
    Alpha wizzszz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aia View Post
    (Just fyi: I have an Asus eeepc 900, and one of the few updates that I got from asus corp. using the built in system update program an update to the system to prevent it from overheating; that's why I included asus eeepc links. I can't run entropia on it and I leave it to your imagination why installation program won't even start. I consider the computer manufacturer to be a relatively reliable source.)
    I have not seen a single official statement from Asus - only post from random people on forums.

    Apparently you think that posts on forums from random (layman) people are reliable info, but i do not share that strange assessment, by no means.
    Not a single fuck shall be given today

  10. #39
    Young dreadi_dosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
    Apparently you think that posts on forums from random (layman) people are reliable info, but i do not share that strange assessment, by no means.
    so what makes your posts/info any more RELIABLE then theirs? Seems a bit hypocritical there.......

  11. #40
    Alpha wizzszz's Avatar
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    Hey, my puppet is back - we so missed you, deadi, not.

    Quote Originally Posted by dreadi_dosh View Post
    so what makes your posts/info any more RELIABLE then theirs? Seems a bit hypocritical there.......
    My posts are not more reliable - they are what you make of them.


    Posts do gain a lot of credibility from every failed attempt to disprove them, though...


    (plus, i have a 3-digit IQ, you know... )
    Last edited by wizzszz; 09-13-2013 at 19:42.
    Not a single fuck shall be given today

 

 
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