Mindark answers Skatteverket

[mjukis]

Just found this, while looking for more info about the tax thing.
http://realtid.se/ArticlePages/20080...tid052.dbp.asp

Translation below

Skatteverket (Swedish tax office) drops tax bomb in online games

Everyone who makes real money from online games like Second Life and World of Warcraft should pay tax. But it's not possible to implement.

- That part isn't done yet, says Skatteverket

Skatteverket makes a standpoint that income from gaming sites are subject to taxation.

In reality it's impossible both to pay and control the tax as the players are represented by anonymous avatars.

Jan Welter Timkrans, CEO of MindArk and the man behind Entropia Universe, doesn't think Skatteverkets standpoint is going to make any difference.

- Skatteverket states that gamers should send invoices to each other. It's unreasonable stuff they're talking about. The users don't know who they're interacting with.

Dag Hardyson, project manager for Skatteverkets review about internet trading and initiator for the standpoint, agrees. If your fellow player is from the US, no tax should be payed.

- You get a chat screen and type "Hi, where are you from?" If the answer is "I'm an American", should you then take a print screen and file in your accounting? That part isn't thought through yet.

But that doesn't stop Skatteverket from saying what the law says.

- Every person should have the right to do the right thing, says Dag Hardyson.

Skatteverket has recieved a lot of questions from people who want to know what the law says.

- Someone could open a consulting business in Second Life. We can't say we just don't care because it's too difficult to control, says Dag Hardyson.

Jan Welter thinks it's ridiculous for Skatteverket to blow the horn about rules that no one can follow. In the US, the congress has chosen not to do anyhting at all about these grey areas.

- They have chosen not to make as rash statements as Skatteverket.

Researcher Peter Zackariasson thinks that Mindark is missing an opportunity to get recognized by the rest of the world.

- One of Mindarks goals is to make Entropia an established arena, just like art galleries and fairs. To inculde institutions like private companies, but to exclude Skatteverket defeats the purpose.

He himself is happy about Skatteverket making a standpoint.

- Spontaneously I feel that it's damn good for them to make this standpoint. It's an acknowledgement for the virtual worlds as a part of reality. Of course they should pay tax.

Peter Zackariasson doesn't make a difference between what Skatteverket calls virtual worlds and other sites that offer financial services - like stock brokers.

- You put money in an account, it turns to profit. When you take it out you have to pay taxes on your profits. It's then comparable to any other profits regardless if you trade in virtual swords or real life stocks, says Peter Zackariasson.

During 2007, 700.000 players in Entropia produced 2,4 billion SEK (400million USD) in turnover.

But only a few Swedes make more than 30.000 SEK (5000 USD) which is the limit Skatteverket is referring to.

Mindark does not want to ay how many they are. Skatteverket thinks they are "more than 10".

Mindark already pays taxes on everything.

- But if our users follow the rules - I can't answer for, like Telia can't be responsible for business being made via their platform, says Jan Welter.

[Vedder]

Ehm... Actually it's kinda tragic.


He he... But still quite funny.

[Radio]

Good find and thanks for the translation.

-If I sell a RL product or service via EU to a consumer then I charge tax. Fair enough.

-If I sell my virtual gun I don't charge a tax on the sale.

-If I withdraw more than I deposited I pay tax on it. 'Capital gains' most probably, not Value Added Tax.

[BlueBoy]

Must say I've been wondering about this my self from time to time. Make sense that the issue is brought to light tho... but stil... what can they do to control it? Silly, yes... but expected. Only in Sweden.

Radio: Agree. That would force MA to give account balance on how much was deposited over time tho... omg, the HORROR to find out!!!

/Oz

[aridash]

Its very interesting as is seems tht MA is going to ignore it, at least for now, and the Skatteverket seem to acknowledge its a policy position that they currently arent going to activly pursue. But it only requires them to call in MA to introduce auditing and transaction tracking (supposedly already in place) and the situation changes very quickly. An audit would easily show all VAT qualify trades between avatars within Sweden and EU and they'll send someone a bill. maybe a summons for late payment?

I have had a support case answer which is basically the same, tax is not our problem. But i think that it just potentially became their problem.

...But only a few Swedes make more than 30.000 SEK (5000 USD) which is the limit Skatteverket is referring to.

Mindark does not want to ay how many they are. Skatteverket thinks they are "more than 10".

It was very clear that the limit was turnover, not profit or income. this would be the same as in the UK (though the limit is different). 50k Ped is a little under 1k a week, im sure theres a good few more than ten turning over that amount (indeed more making that as profit...)

- But if our users follow the rules - I can't answer for, like Telia can't be responsible for business being made via their platform, says Jan Welter.

But Telia doesnt provide a platform for exchanging funds via a currency linked to a real world currency on a fixed rate.

[Vedder]

Originally Posted by aridash

...
But Telia doesnt provide a platform for exchanging funds via a currency linked to a real world currency on a fixed rate.

Sure they do... They deliver bandwidth for Internet-banking. (For instance)

[aridash]

Originally Posted by Vedder

Sure they do... They deliver bandwidth for Internet-banking. (For instance)

you know i dont mean that sort of exchange or platform. they dont offer a method of direct monetary exchange, you cant log onto your Telia account and wire money to another Telia account. The very purpose of Entropia, its RCE, internal market and its currency are what makes it different to any other business.


to scratch the itch further:

Jan Welter Timkrans, CEO of MindArk and the man behind Entropia Universe, doesn't think Skatteverkets standpoint is going to make any difference.

- Skatteverket states that gamers should send invoices to each other. It's unreasonable stuff they're talking about. The users don't know who they're interacting with

But MA do know who and where the avatars are, and since when has being "resonable" stopped a tax office? If the Skatteverket demand payments from MA see how fast we get an invoicing system.

[Legion]

Researcher Peter Zackariasson thinks that Mindark is missing an opportunity to get recognized by the rest of the world.

oh lookie.. my teacher

[StrongMinded]

I want a tax deduction for all my losses!!!

[Argentum]

Originally Posted by StrongMinded

I want a tax deduction for all my losses!!!

LOL

Think this would result in losses for skatteverket.
More loosers than winners.
Tax deduction for us loosing money is fine with me

/Argentum